National Express West Midlands Bus Strike

[duncanp]

Trainees who have not yet passed training I guess would not be affected. Personally I think anything lower than £17 an hour plus some benefits will not go through at this stage.

So what is the latest offer from the company worth then, in terms of a rate per hour?

 

[DriverNX]

Top rate for a driver after 3 years is £14.40. Overtime is paid at 1.25x this rate. The latest offer would have put top rate at £16.46, a rise of £2.06 an hour! I'll allow you to calculate the rest across a month and a year should you wish. Additionally we were offered 3x our rate on Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. We currently only have this rate on Boxing Day when a very limited service runs anyway.

 

[duncanp]

Top rate for a driver after 3 years is £14.40. Overtime is paid at 1.25x this rate. The latest offer would have put top rate at £16.46, a rise of £2.06 an hour! I'll allow you to calculate the rest across a month and a year should you wish. Additionally we were offered 3x our rate on Christmas Eve, Boxing Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. We currently only have this rate on Boxing Day when a very limited service runs anyway.

So it seems that just a small increase in the hourly rate, above what has aleady been offered, would be enough to solve the dispute.

£17 per hour would represent an increase of just over 18% on the rate of £14.40 per hour.

A lot of the drivers are being quoted today complaining about verbal abuse and other hassle that they get from passengers.

This is regrettable, but what can the company do about this, realistically, apart from increasing the hourly rate so that it at least provides some compensation for some of the more disagreeable aspects of the job.

 

[Simon75]

I've read on various Facebook posts that a few people are confused by thinking coaches are on strike, which as we know they aren't.

 

[WM Bus]

A lot of the drivers are being quoted today complaining about verbal abuse and other hassle that they get from passengers.
This is regrettable, but what can the company do about this

The revenue inspectors having a greater presence might help with that possibly.
Or more police presence to.

 

[Merseysider]

A lot of the drivers are being quoted today complaining about verbal abuse and other hassle that they get from passengers.

This.

In normal circumstances I'll be on at least 15 buses per week for a mixture of work and leisure.

At least once a week, not uncommon to see twice+, there'll be some cretin who demands to travel for free / barges on with no ticket / calls the driver a f*cking d*head etc for stopping the engine.

Plus numerous schoolchildren regularly trying their luck with yesterday's daysaver etc.

Not to mention the dregs of society that think it's fine to drink their 8% Carlsberg Special Brew or light up a cig or vape onboard.

In 5 years of commuting I've seen revenue protection three times.

Three. Times.

Drivers have my sympathy but I don't think they'll have the public's support if this goes on for too long.

Edit: Almost forgot the verbal abuse they get off "regular" folk who are sick to death of waiting 45 minutes for a 28 bus... due to staff shortages... due in part to WRS!

I've only ever seen a driver lose his temper once (it was glorious to behold - he got out his cab, picked up a "wasteman"'s can of Stella and chucked it full pelt out the door ). They have tremendous patience.

 

[birchesgreen]

Unfortunately anyone who works in a customer facing role in any company will be able to tell you similar awful stories. Not everyone in the general public is terrible but a high enough proportion are.

We definitely need more revenue teams though; like the above I've hardly seen any lately. Back when i was a nipper in the 80s it seemed the Inspectors were more common.

 

[Sprinter107]

We do need more inspectors on those buses. The behaviour of a minority is a disgrace. I'm absolutely fed up of listening to other people's loud music, and breathing in weed fumes. Then they introduce a congestion charge and tell people to start using public transport, with that sort of behaviour on board. No wonder people stick with the safety of their cars. Those drivers have a terrible amount of anti social behaviour to put up with. They deserve their rise. I thought it was bad enough on the trains with what I have to put with, but its nothing compared to the behaviour I witness frequently on West Midlands buses.

 

[duncanp]

This.

In normal circumstances I'll be on at least 15 buses per week for a mixture of work and leisure.

At least once a week, not uncommon to see twice+, there'll be some cretin who demands to travel for free / barges on with no ticket / calls the driver a f*cking d*head etc for stopping the engine.

Plus numerous schoolchildren regularly trying their luck with yesterday's daysaver etc.

Not to mention the dregs of society that think it's fine to drink their 8% Carlsberg Special Brew or light up a cig or vape onboard.

In 5 years of commuting I've seen revenue protection three times.

Three. Times.

Drivers have my sympathy but I don't think they'll have the public's support if this goes on for too long.

Edit: Almost forgot the verbal abuse they get off "regular" folk who are sick to death of waiting 45 minutes for a 28 bus... due to staff shortages... due in part to WRS!

I've only ever seen a driver lose his temper once (it was glorious to behold - he got out his cab, picked up a "wasteman"'s can of Stella and chucked it full pelt out the door ). They have tremendous patience.

I have seen revenue protection quite frequently in recent months.

One place they use is at the Ivy Bush stop in Edgbaston, Eastbound on the Hagley Road going into the city centre.

Another stop is in Smallbrook Queensway, at the stop just before New Street station.

Your heart sinks when they get on, because you know that there will always be some scrote who has got something wrong with their ticket, and the bus doesn't move until the problem is sorted out or the scrote gets off.

But it doesn't matter how many revenue protection teams they have, they simply can't be everywhere at once.

Similarly with dedicated security staff, they can't be on every bus all the time.

I haven't seen people barging on for free and trying it on with yesterday's ticket recently, so I wonder if there are particular areas or times of day where it happens more often.

In terms of settling the current dispute, the union and company need to agree on what can be done in practical terms about anti social behaviour, but there isn't an easy short term fix that will eliminate this problem.

 

[Sprinter107]

The last time I saw the revenue team, was when the Hagley Road buses were on diversion due to the Metro works in Broad Street, and the were getting on at the stop at the back of the library. Havent seen any since. Maybe they need more, to make the drivers life easier.

 

[duncanp]

The last time I saw the revenue team, was when the Hagley Road buses were on diversion due to the Metro works in Broad Street, and the were getting on at the stop at the back of the library. Havent seen any since. Maybe they need more, to make the drivers life easier.

You are right, they do need more teams, and perhaps part of the settlement of this dispute could be that the union and the company agree on how many more teams there should be, and over what time period this should be implemented.

 

[Sprinter107]

You are right, they do need more teams, and perhaps part of the settlement of this dispute could be that the union and the company agree on how many more teams there should be, and over what time period this should be implemented.

Yes, maybe that may be the answer.

 

[DriverNX]

The debate on how much abuse we get is interesting. I'll admit we do get our fair share on a daily basis but it depends what you classify as abuse and who is actually provoking it. If a fare dodger gets on a bus the company very clearly states to drivers not to cause any conflict with the person. We have a button on our machine that reports it to revenue. It is difficult sometimes and on a few occasions passengers can be abusive without any warning. I have had 2 occasions where passengers have actually tried to physically get into my cab as I'm driving along! The one guy has actually caused me a permanent injury to my finger. I had no help or support from onlooking passengers and instead after the incident, police arrested the individual and I asked to press charges but a few days later I was told there was not enough evidence despite there being very clear CCTV of the incident. At the time passengers were not interested in my welfare but instead expected me to continue with my journey as they all just wanted to get home. I felt very low on that day and I have to admit, the company did not support me at all. I had no time off from work and a manager never sought out to check on my welfare until I happened to pass one in a corridor a few weeks later.

Overall I would say abuse does happen yes, unprovoked abuse has happened to me. A lot of it is avoidable though and certain drivers receive more abuse than others as they will provoke fare dodgers a lot more. The abuse though is not really anymore I would say that lesser paid professions such as retail, hospitality, care etc.

 

[duncanp]

The debate on how much abuse we get is interesting. I'll admit we do get our fair share on a daily basis but it depends what you classify as abuse and who is actually provoking it. If a fare dodger gets on a bus the company very clearly states to drivers not to cause any conflict with the person. We have a button on our machine that reports it to revenue. It is difficult sometimes and on a few occasions passengers can be abusive without any warning. I have had 2 occasions where passengers have actually tried to physically get into my cab as I'm driving along! The one guy has actually caused me a permanent injury to my finger. I had no help or support from onlooking passengers and instead after the incident, police arrested the individual and I asked to press charges but a few days later I was told there was not enough evidence despite there being very clear CCTV of the incident. At the time passengers were not interested in my welfare but instead expected me to continue with my journey as they all just wanted to get home. I felt very low on that day and I have to admit, the company did not support me at all. I had no time off from work and a manager never sought out to check on my welfare until I happened to pass one in a corridor a few weeks later.

Overall I would say abuse does happen yes, unprovoked abuse has happened to me. A lot of it is avoidable though and certain drivers receive more abuse than others as they will provoke fare dodgers a lot more. The abuse though is not really anymore I would say that lesser paid professions such as retail, hospitality, care etc.

I am sorry that other passengers were not interested in your welfare.

I have on occasions told other passengers not to be abusive to the bus driver, and on one occasion helped to remove an old tramp from a bus.

I have also assisted a driver who got lost when he was sent on an unplanned diversion which he was not familiar with.

I can't comment on why the police thought there was not enough evidence to press charges despite there being clear CCTV images, but the very least they could have done is give him a formal caution and keep a written record of his name.

The company should have a clear policy of what happens after incidents of anti social behaviour which should include:-

• Whether the bus journey needs to be terminated immediately in the case of a serious incident
• Whether the bus can continue to the terminus but then taken out of service in the case of a less serious incident
• An independent welfare and counselling service that you can access after an incident.
• A nominated manager whose job it is to monitor incidents of anti social behaviour, liaise with the police where necessary, and to check on the welfare of drivers involved in an incident
• A policy on taking time off work after an incident

I don't know how much of the above you already have in place, but something like this would go some way to making drivers feel that the company values their welfare, and would assist in settling the current dispute.

 

[SLC001]

This is such a sad thread. I lived for many years in the West Midlands during the early 70s and at the age of 13 I regularly explored the area at all times during the day and evening using local buses. I felt secure and safe and cannot ever recall being fearful or noting "anti-social" behaviour. Hasn't life changed?
For me, especially as I now have my bus pass, using the bus would be a consideration but I doubt I will. Encouraging bus travel which benefits society as a whole requires a number of factors. Persuasion by perhaps charging more for parking or implementing a congestion charge. There needs to be a way to discourage the use of cars. Secondly fares need to be cheap - and simple. Services need to be frequent, conveniently close by and go to where you want to go. Journeys need to be quick and in comfortable, clean buses etc. However, all these together will not get me back on buses until the anti-social element is removed. I do not wish to feel uncomfortable, threatened or uneasy or watch socially inadequate individuals behaving without care or consideration of others.
So when the mayor lists his priorities to encourage bus travel he needs to start from the top - and then work down. Not at the bottom and move up. Maybe the mayor should provide financial support for revenue inspectors or security guards (cannot think of a less alarming term but I hope readers understand what I mean) so that passengers feel safe, secure knowing that not only will antisocial behaviour be challenged, but effective action will be taken against the minority who make life difficult for us all.
Surely drivers too will feel more reassured?

 

[Sprinter107]

I find the bus fares that NX West Midlands charge are very reasonable. I'm more than happy to pay them. The routes I use have a decent frequency, im happy with that. Its the anti social behaviour I have a problem with, and it is getting more and more. We have buses now with phone chargers, which is great. One of the buses I was travelling on, on Sunday, had most of them on the upper deck vandalised and unusable. There were 2 people sitting at the rear, there was one person smoking weed, an other smoking mamba. Its just almost every journey at weekends, and many journeys weekdays especially evening times. I dont feel safe sometimes on routes ive been using all of my life.
I have a mate who's been driving West Midlands buses since they were run by the PTE, and he says the anti social behaviour is at an all time high, and drivers are leaving because of it. They deserve every penny they earn in my opinion. As I said earlier, we get it on the trains, again, worse than I've known it for all of my career, but nothing like some of those bus drivers have to put up with. I hope they get the increase they deserve.

 

[DriverNX]

@duncanp your points are very valid and the company could certainly have a more structured and supportive approach towards drivers who receive unprovoked abuse and I feel also receive better training on how to avoid conflict with passengers. Many drivers do end up having a lot of time off due to receiving aggressive abuse which in turn costs the company money so you would think it was in their invested interest. I would say the lone working conditions sometimes make receiving this abuse worse as you do not have any peers to help during any type of abuse. Personally this is one of the main and only negative things about my job and the very reason I would be uncomfortable with day my wife doing the job. I still think a 14.3% pay rise is enough to compensate for this factor in our role though and do not see a valid argument in what a lot of drivers are saying.

The other thing I would note on anti social behaviour which is one of the factors (as well as work life balance) behind why there is a driver shortage is that is has certainly increase 3 fold since the pandemic. Hard to tell what the link to that is without looking into any research if I'm honest but I know this to certainly be the case.

 

[duncanp]

@duncanp your points are very valid and the company could certainly have a more structured and supportive approach towards drivers who receive unprovoked abuse and I feel also receive better training on how to avoid conflict with passengers. Many drivers do end up having a lot of time off due to receiving aggressive abuse which in turn costs the company money so you would think it was in their invested interest. I would say the lone working conditions sometimes make receiving this abuse worse as you do not have any peers to help during any type of abuse. Personally this is one of the main and only negative things about my job and the very reason I would be uncomfortable with day my wife doing the job. I still think a 14.3% pay rise is enough to compensate for this factor in our role though and do not see a valid argument in what a lot of drivers are saying.

It is frustrating to see on the BBC that the company wants to resolve the strike and the union says it is willing to compromise, and yet they are not talking to each other at the moment.

The walkout follows a pay row between the company and members of the union Unite which says the action is continuing indefinitely but workers are willing to compromise. The company says it wants to resolve the strike.

Families count cost of National Express West Midlands bus strike

Families say they are having to pay for taxis or rely on friends for transport during the action.

www.bbc.co.uk

Work and school disruption amid bus driver strike​

At a glance

• Bus passengers have faced a second day of strike disruption
• Families have told the BBC they have been forced to pay for taxis or rely on other people to get to work and school
• National Express West Midlands urges customers not to travel unless they have to
• The company and the Unite union both say they want to find a solution to the strike

West Midlands families say they are counting the cost of the region's bus strike after being "stranded" or left paying for taxis amid the disruption.

Hundreds of thousands of National Express West Midlands passengers have been affected by drivers' walkout which began on Monday.

Among them are Bilston residents Kerry Bradley and her daughter who normally use buses to get to work but paid £55 between them on Monday for three taxi journeys.

Mrs Bradley works at a GP surgery and says she fears a weekly combined cost of more than £250, adding: "You get to the point of thinking 'where is the money going to come from and what are we going to do'?"

The walkout follows a pay row between the company and members of the union Unite which says the action is continuing indefinitely but workers are willing to compromise. The company says it wants to resolve the strike.

National Express has apologised for the disruption and urges customers not to travel unless they have to.

The firm runs 1,600 buses across the West Midlands and normally carries about 600,000 passengers each day. A truncated service is currently in operation, mainly on routes serving major hospitals.

Jackie, a blind single parent from Kingstanding, Birmingham, says getting her son to school has meant relying on other people to change their plans to drive him.

The Covid-19 pandemic affected his GCSE studies and, with A-Level mock exams next week, she said she was concerned about his education.

"It is stressing him out, it is a big worry. Having to rely on other people to get him to school, we are living from day to day and we are only in day two," she said.

National Express said an offer to drivers of a 14.3% pay increase remained on the table which would see an average driver earn almost £33,000 in Birmingham and the Black Country, and £34,000 in Coventry.

But Onay Kasab, from Unite, said while the pay rise might sound a lot, the starting salary for drivers with the company was £11.80 an hour.

"When your pay is low to start with, then 14% may not in reality be as big as it sounds," he said. "Historically there has been low pay among this group."

Matthew Evans, who was made homeless earlier this year and lives in shared accommodation in Arden, near Solihull, said he was unable to afford alternative transport and the strike had left him stranded.

"I rely on the buses and I think the pay deal they were offered, from what I heard, was a good deal so I am a bit frustrated about it," he explained.

Stacie Feehan, from Pendeford, Wolverhampton, said while the strike had affected her family's routine, she supported the drivers who were "entitled to fair pay".

She said the walkout had left her, as the only driver in her family of six, having to take her husband to work and then her children to school.

"I'm having to do everything with a one-year-old in tow which just adds to the stress," she said. "I just want them to have the buses back up and running as soon as possible."

Karen Hughes, from Willenhall, Coventry, explained that she had borrowed money from her father to buy her husband a bike so he could get to work, saying "so we're in debt".

She told the BBC: "[The strike is] just leaving people stranded. Yes there are taxis for people who can afford it but for others, money is really tight."

Passengers are advised to check the National Express website for routes and running times.

National Express West Midlands' coach division is not affected.

 

[GusB]

I appreciate that anti-social behaviour might have some bearing on why drivers might have a grievance, but it is not the main topic of the thread and we are in danger of veering off-topic. Please keep the discussion to the current industrial action and any proposed resolutions.

 

[birchesgreen]

Any sign of white smoke coming from a possible resolution to this mess?

 

[Fredtheshred]

I wanted to perhaps calm things down and offer alternate views.

I work for a major hospital trust in Bham. My team and myself are part of the crash teams, covering two major hospitals.....one that reguarly saves childrens lives.

Since brexit, many bus drivers have left to be HGV drivers, retired, or left the role.

With more and more buses cancelled due to lack of drivers (Yardley Wood garage is my example), I have seen more and more abuse of the existing drivers, meaning that more will just leave, deciding the hassle is not worth it.

So lets imagine there was no strike.

It would mean that my bus that used to be every twenty mins, which has now gone hourly at 8pm, would continue to turn up just 50% of the time, with me arriving home (just 5 miles away) two hours after finishing work exhausted. Massive amounts of cancellations on numbers 2,3,18,27,76 (and probably the same at other garages will continue).

Either more drivers will leave and we will have NO service, or an agreement can be reached that will encourage more drivers to join.

I am currently walking 10 miles a day and I have no views on whether the strike is right or wrong. I cannot afford taxis, and trains would cover only a small part of the journey and take longer than walking.

We urgently need a bus service and many more drivers to operate that.....however that is to be achieved.

The present system/wages or whatever is clearly not working. Maybe this will show people that if we just do nothing we will have no service anymore.

Strike or no strike. People need to wake up to market economies as our current excuses for politicians seem to love.

Bad times

 

[DriverNX]

Any sign of white smoke coming from a possible resolution to this mess?

None whatsoever as far as I'm aware. No information to drivers from either party today.

 

[Liam L]

Any sign of white smoke coming from a possible resolution to this mess?

Read on another forum (https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=6367.600 post 608) that mangement may be meeting with Union on Thursday.

 

[Russel]

Read on another forum (https://wmbusphotos.com/forum/index.php?topic=6367.600 post 608) that mangement may be meeting with Union on Thursday.

Why are they waiting until Thursday to meet?

Surely with every day that passes, it's doing more harm to the business for NX and for the drivers. Every day that passes means one day less pay, unless Unite are covering the drivers wages, in which case, it will cost Unite a small fortune.

 

[duncanp]

Why are they waiting until Thursday to meet?

Surely with every day that passes, it's doing more harm to the business for NX and for the drivers. Every day that passes means one day less pay, unless Unite are covering the drivers wages, in which case, it will cost Unite a small fortune.

It is possible that informal discussions are taking place today, behind the scenes and without anyone talking to the media.

After all, the company do say that they are continuing to talk to the union, and both parties are saying that they are willing to compromise and settle this matter as quickly as possible

Then at the formal meeting tomorrow, there is more chance that any amended pay offer put to the union will be good enough to call off the strike.

This is all pure speculation of course, and only time will tell what actually happens.

 

[Geordie driver]

Those hourly rate posted by Driver NX are cracking and the sort of wages I would need in order to tempt me to return.

There appears to be a breakdown of trust between the drivers and the company. But given the companys' ability to come to agreements

( " The approved terms and conditions promised better shift patterns, less split shifts, the ability to choose your own work life balance and a slight pay rise. The increase in pay was stipulated by the company that this small increase (around 30p ph) would not be included in any pay deal and was explicitly not a pay deal. ")

then just ignore everything that has be agreed, who can blame the drivers? But this is not unusual in the industry.

What is unusual is seeking out a convicted criminal, indeed someone convicted of a serious breech of trust theft from his previous employer for a senior position.

Small wonder it's hard to trust your employer.

The lack of support on the road for drivers is a national disgrace, but as GusB said, for another thread.

 

[Liam L]

unless Unite are covering the drivers wages, in which case, it will cost Unite a small fortune.

Someone with more knowledge will be able to confirm, but I believe they are getting some money from the strike fund, not as much as a normal wage, I'd imagine.

 

[DriverNX]

Someone with more knowledge will be able to confirm, but I believe they are getting some money from the strike fund, not as much as a normal wage, I'd imagine.

Drivers are being paid £70 a day from Unite's Strike Fund of £50m.

 

[duncanp]

Those hourly rate posted by Driver NX are cracking and the sort of wages I would need in order to tempt me to return.

Interestingly, a lot of people would seem to agree with you, as National Express West Midlands have said that there has been a significant increase in applications for bus driver jobs since the strike was announced.

Whatever your point of view and whatever the final settlement is, this can only be a good thing, as it will reduce the shortage of drivers and increase the reliability of bus services.

The fact that they have released these figures in advance of talks with the unions today seems to me to be an attempt to put pressure on them to come to an agreement, by showing that there are people willing to do the job for the rates already offered.

Bus driver applications rocket during bus strikes

National Express reveal interest in bus driver jobs has rocketed during pay dispute

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Bus driver applications rocket during strikes as National Express says plenty willing to do the job​

National Express reveal interest in bus driver jobs has rocketed during pay dispute

The number of people looking to become bus drivers has rocketed during the strikes, according to operator National Express (NX). Bosses revealed applications had almost tripled during this week's industrial action, claiming it demonstrated there were plenty of people willing to do the job.

It comes amid a bitter row between NX and unions and drivers about pay and working conditions. Bus drivers at the company, which runs 93 per cent of the West Midlands bus network, have been on strike since Monday, with the unprecedented action wiping out the majority of services.

NX said applications shot up to 393 in the week since strikes were announced, up from an average of around 140. The company insisted its 14.3 per cent pay rise offer, tabled in a bid to prevent the strikes, was more than fair.

Bosses said it would mean the "vast majority" of drivers earning £33,000 a year. There was no sign NX would increase its offer further, though talks remain ongoing.

A National Express West Midlands spokesperson said: “It’s great to see so many people feel our offer is compelling and are applying for bus driver roles. Beyond the pay and benefits, being a driver means playing an important role in the community and keeping the West Midlands moving.”


Commuters, shoppers, parents and the rest of the travelling public have been warned strikes could continue for days yet. NX announced on Wednesday night there had not yet been a breakthrough.

The company told BirminghamLive that effectively the ball was in the court of the Unite union and drivers to come forward and discuss the existing offer. Unite argued NX could afford to pay its drivers more and reward them for the hard work they did and what they had to put up with on a daily basis.

 

[DriverNX]

Interestingly, a lot of people would seem to agree with you, as National Express West Midlands have said that there has been a significant increase in applications for bus driver jobs since the strike was announced.

Whatever your point of view and whatever the final settlement is, this can only be a good thing, as it will reduce the shortage of drivers and increase the reliability of bus services.

The fact that they have released these figures in advance of talks with the unions today seems to me to be an attempt to put pressure on them to come to an agreement, by showing that there are people willing to do the job for the rates already offered.

Bus driver applications rocket during bus strikes

National Express reveal interest in bus driver jobs has rocketed during pay dispute

www.birminghammail.co.uk

It's an interesting turn in events and one I am sure NX will use in their negotiations. I am not sure how it stands with newly recruited drivers and whether they can strike if they apply during industrial action. Another issue will be that new drivers are trained by experienced drivers on such things as route learning, driving in service and other on the job aspects so I am not sure the resource will be in place once applicants have gained a licence. The company does currently have a huge number of support staff sitting around doing nothing so whether they will be utilised to provide such training if capable remains to be seen. I understand negotiations started at 11am today so as a driver I should have some form of an official update by close of play today.