National Level / Enhanced Assessment

[strangemonk]

Hi guys ,

Finally joined after lurking for so long!

Just hoping for some clarification on the subject ,
I have passed all the assessments bar the multi modular interview with a TOC , I applied for a different TOC post 6 months and have been invited to the assessments advised them of my results but after searching the national database HR advised me i need to resit group bourdon and TRP1 as I haven't passed them at a enhanced level at this TOC needs enhanced.

So my question is , if I already passed it at national level for a different TOC and fail the group Bourdon / TRP1 test by not reaching the enhanced level does this count as my final life ? Or simply mean I haven't reached the enhanced mark required so I can apply again in another 6 months?

Thank you

 

[Dynamonic]

Hi there strangemonk,

Officially, lives are lost when you fail assessments, so if you were to unfortunately fail at this next assessment, you will have technically have lost your first life and have one attempt remaining. (As you passed your first to at least the National Standard)
You’ll be unable to retake any part of the assessment for another six months, and your first National Standard pass will no longer apply.
However, I have heard that some TOCs will sometimes not allow you to take the tests more than twice, regardless of whether you passed to National Standard or failed them. Not reaching the Enhanced Standard can be regarded as a fail and a life lost with that particular TOC. (These are normally asked about at the pre-application questionnaire stage.)

The official RSSB guidelines are as follows:

Re-assessments for failed candidates

2.7.1 Railway undertakings shall not re-assess a candidate who has failed the psychometric assessment process within six months.
2.7.2 Railway undertakings shall not re-assess a candidate who has failed the psychometric assessment process more than once unless there are mitigating circumstances that have been considered and documented by the railway undertaking.

When a candidate is re-assessed, the process needs to cover only the elements which the candidate failed at the first assessment, if:
a) It is carried out within five years of the first assessment.
b) There is no evidence of a major life event having occurred since the first assessment, for examples see Appendix C of this document.

Any candidate who failed a previous version of the psychometric assessment process is considered by the industry Driver Selection Governance Group to be eligible to be assessed up to twice using the process outlined in Appendix A.

 

[strangemonk]

Hi dynamonic,

Sorry if i misunderstood or vice versa,

to summarise,

Ive already had an attempt at the assessments passed them all except the multi modular interivew/structured interview with one TOC,
i applied after 6 months to another TOC who seem to require enhanced so they said i need to resit group bourdon and TRP1 as they arent enhanced results and of course resit the multi modular as I failed that the first time around.

So this is my second official attempt but im resitting tests ive passed at national level already so if i dont meet the enhanced level surely it dosent count as a strike as ive already passed it ? just not to that specific TOC requirement.

So wouldnt that allow me to apply a 3rd time after another 6 months with my original results expiring at this stage due to it being more than 2 years after that.

 

[Val3ntine]

Hi dynamonic,

Sorry if i misunderstood or vice versa,

to summarise,

Ive already had an attempt at the assessments passed them all except the multi modular interivew/structured interview with one TOC,
i applied after 6 months to another TOC who seem to require enhanced so they said i need to resit group bourdon and TRP1 as they arent enhanced results and of course resit the multi modular as I failed that the first time around.

So this is my second official attempt but im resitting tests ive passed at national level already so if i dont meet the enhanced level surely it dosent count as a strike as ive already passed it ? just not to that specific TOC requirement.

So wouldnt that allow me to apply a 3rd time after another 6 months with my original results expiring at this stage due to it being more than 2 years after that.

I believe your position is as follows:
Whatever tests you now retake will wipe out your previous results regardless.

If you fail any of the tests but manage to pass it again to the national standard but not to enhanced for that company, you are able to apply straight away for a TOC who only requires national passes and you will go straight through to MMI/DMI. If you fail MMI however at any stage wether now or later you will have used your two strikes.

If you pass to national standard only it also restricts you from doing the assesments again with companies who require enhanced standards because they will not let you sit the tests again. The only way you can now progress with a TOC is if they accept national standard hence you not needing to sit the tests or if your scores already meet a company’s enhanced scores again meaning you don’t need to sit it again. It gets confusing because companies tend to have different enhanced scores, in the case of the company you are about to sit with you haven’t met it, other companies there’s a possibility you might have. It’s just a case of applying and letting them inform you of your position. The one thing for sure is that this will be the last time you sit tests regardless.

If you fail any of the tests and don’t reach national standard, your previous national standard pass is wiped and unfortunately you have used your two strikes.

 

[GJL9916]

If you re-sit the tests again then whatever you get will overwrite your current results (for better or worse)

If you take the tests and fail to national standard then you can’t retake the tests with any TOC for 6 months.

If you take the tests again and pass to national standard but not meet the required (enhanced) standard of a particular TOC then you are free to take the tests again with another TOC as soon as you like but can’t take them with the particular TOC that you didn’t meet the enhanced standard for 6 months.

As long as you keep passing to national standard then in theory you can take the tests as many times as you want (unless individual TOCs have a 2 strike rule - although I’ve never heard of that)

As far as the RSSB is concerned there is only one pass level and that’s national standard - anything else is just a benchmark that’s set by individual TOCs.

 

[Brilufc]

Which TOCs ask for enhanced level only? and is that common practice with TOCs or is national level usually the benchmark?

 

[Val3ntine]

As long as you keep passing to national standard then in theory you can take the tests as many times as you want (unless individual TOCs have a 2 strike rule - although I’ve never heard of that)

Realistically there’s only really 2 goes at the test because to have passed to only national standard twice means they will have failed to enhanced twice aswell meaning two strikes have passed at enhanced level. Even a company with lower enhanced levels there will be no need to retake because either they have passed to their level already or not. And if not then they will have used their 2 strikes for them in this case.

 

[Val3ntine]

Which TOCs ask for enhanced level only? and is that common practice with TOCs or is national level usually the benchmark?

This is a difficult questions as a lot of TOCS seem to change their requirements during each recruitment. EMT for example were enhanced now I believe they want national. GTR the same. Some TOCS other way round wanted only national then they recruit again and seems they want enhanced.
The only TOCS I know 100% haven’t ever changed their requirements are crossrail and Arriva rail london who want enhanced, and SWR and GWR who want national. Again subject to change when they next recruit who knows. Not sure about TOCS outside of LDN however if anyone knows more?

Just apply to anyone with vacancies really and let them tell you what you do or don’t need to do.

 

[GJL9916]

Realistically there’s only really 2 goes at the test because to have passed to only national standard twice means they will have failed to enhanced twice aswell meaning two strikes have passed at enhanced level. Even a company with lower enhanced levels there will be no need to retake because either they have passed to their level already or not. And if not then they will have used their 2 strikes for them in this case.

Unless a particular TOC specifies they only accept you having two attempts and not meeting enhanced then as long as 6 months passes in between then you can apply to them as many times as you want as long as you’re meeting standard RSSB pass levels -
I personally have never seen a TOC or FOC say that you have two attempts with us to make enhanced and then that’s it.

And as for taking the tests themselves then like I say as long as you meet the RSSB standard pass which is the only officially recognised pass level then you can take it as many tines as you want.

 

[Val3ntine]

Unless a particular TOC specifies they only accept you having two attempts and not meeting enhanced then as long as 6 months passes in between then you can apply to them as many times as you want as long as you’re meeting standard RSSB pass levels -
I personally have never seen a TOC or FOC say that you have two attempts with us to make enhanced and then that’s it.

And as for taking the tests themselves then like I say as long as you meet the RSSB standard pass which is the only officially recognised pass level then you can take it as many tines as you want.

Makes sense, I know for a fact Crossrail and Arriva Rail London are strict in the fact you can only fail twice to enhanced and then you are barred from progressing with them again even if you achieved national standards. As you say other companies who require enhanced could be different. Very confusing system which is why I always advise people to just apply and see where they get.

 

[strangemonk]

Thank you guys for all your responses so far , im using the GBT to practise and practise and some memory games for the Trainability for rules and procedures part 1 , i am currently a senior guard so i can take in info and remember it!

How are my GB scores so far in regards to an enhanced pass?

Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 9
Marked Incorrect ----------- None


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 1500
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.255
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.210

Completed Rows ------------- 58
Mean Row Time -------------- 6.389
Median Row Time ------------ 6.235


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 3.73

 

[Dynamonic]

Hi strangemonk,

Unfortunately, the number of omitted targets you have would almost certainly cause you to fail the Group Bourdon currently. Try to slow down and work at a consistent pace across all the sheets. As soon as you realise you're only missing 1 overall or making 1 mistake, then you can try and speed up again. You want to aim to get to roughly the same point on every sheet you complete. Also, try and practice on paper too by printing the practice sheets off the tool you're using, as the tests will be done on paper on the day.
In my practices, I completed about 10-11 rows per sheet, making no more than one mistake/omission and passed to Enhanced standard on the day, so I reckon you can afford to slow it down slightly looking at the 58 rows you completed overall.

 

[strangemonk]

Hi strangemonk,

Unfortunately, the number of omitted targets you have would almost certainly cause you to fail the Group Bourdon currently. Try to slow down and work at a consistent pace across all the sheets. As soon as you realise you're only missing 1 overall or making 1 mistake, then you can try and speed up again. You want to aim to get to roughly the same point on every sheet you complete. Also, try and practice on paper too by printing the practice sheets off the tool you're using, as the tests will be done on paper on the day.
In my practices, I completed about 10-11 rows per sheet, making no more than one mistake/omission and passed to Enhanced standard on the day, so I reckon you can afford to slow it down slightly looking at the 58 rows you completed overall.

Thanks for the feedback, my assessment is next week so ive gotten a damn sight better than when i first took it, im trying to find a balance with speed and accuracy then i find i end up speeding up way too much and miss many.

 

[Dynamonic]

Thanks for the feedback, my assessment is next week so ive gotten a damn sight better than when i first took it, im trying to find a balance with speed and accuracy then i find i end up speeding up way too much and miss many.

I found it helped to get a rhythm going in my head when I was practicing to keep my pace consistent, and I reckon it's far easier to find the rhythm when you're working on paper too. Just keep at it, but try not to practice too much in one go either, otherwise your performance will suffer with fatigue. You'll get there!!!

 

[strangemonk]

I found it helped to get a rhythm going in my head when I was practicing to keep my pace consistent, and I reckon it's far easier to find the rhythm when you're working on paper too. Just keep at it, but try not to practice too much in one go either, otherwise your performance will suffer with fatigue. You'll get there!!!

Hi, following your advice how about this?

Overall Statistics:
-------------------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ 1
Marked Incorrect ----------- None


Speed:

Total Cells ---------------- 1293
Mean Cell Time ------------- 0.296
Median Cell Time ----------- 0.240

Completed Rows ------------- 48
Mean Row Time -------------- 7.459
Median Row Time ------------ 7.390


Vigilance:

Row Fluctuation ------------ 3.92



---------------------------------------------



Individual Sheet Statistics:
----------------------------


Sheet: 1
--------

Perception & Attention:

Targets Omitted ------------ None
Marked Incorrect ----------- None

 

[Dynamonic]

That is much, much better strangemonk and is looking far more like 'pass' material! Your Row Fluctuation (although still quite good) suggests that there is slight differences in performance between the rows, so keep trying to get a consistent rhythm going and get that figure below 2.50.
Once you've got your rhythm going, and your Row Fluctuation down slightly, then look into speeding up slightly and try and keep that Omitted figure at '1' or even '0'!

You're almost there!

 

[baz962]

I take it you are using the group bourdon sticky @strangemonk . I was rubbish on that , it's far easier on the actual paper test . I was doing nine lines on the day and passed to enhanced.

 

[strangemonk]

I take it you are using the group bourdon sticky @strangemonk . I was rubbish on that , it's far easier on the actual paper test . I was doing nine lines on the day and passed to enhanced.

Hi baz yeah , i think the computer screens cause my eyes to water and end up looking after other lines and dots further on than what im actually on it seems i think the paper version would be much easier.

Trainability for rules part 1 is the memory test im thinking of jotting down the most important facts highlighting them then making a word for a letter that represents the facts as an example from Brentwood to Maryland is as follows

Big - Brentwood
Hairy - Harold wood
Gash - Goodmayes
Roman - Romford
Catholic - Chadwell Heath
Girls- Gidea Park
School - Seven Kings
In - Ilford
Manchester - Manor Park
For - Forest Gate
Me - Maryland

This as an example but for facts for the sheet they provide.

 

[baz962]

Just Google group bourdon and print