National Railway Museum Changes

[ryan125hst]

Forgive me if there is already a thread discussing this, but as I'm sure many are aware, the Station Hall is currently closed for redevolpment as they are installing a new roof and demolishing the wall at the end of it to be replaced with windows. The yard is also closed while they do this work. Additionally, the workshop has closed to be turned into Wonderlab for children.

While it is good to see investment in the museum after closure has been threatened on at least one occassion, I am also concerned about where changes might leave the place. Has anyone been to the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry recently having visited a number of years ago...

I believe that the balcony is currently closed due to the Wonderlab works. Is this going to be reopening or has it closed for good? I have always enjoyed, as a child and an adult, watching trains from the balcony with the station style information screens present. There were also the screens showing the live signalling from York IECC. They were updated from CRTs about ten years ago. I'm interested in signalling and I always though these were great. I really hope they are to stay, or perhaps be updated. Likewise the signal box setup just beyond that which I think they sometimes did demos at?

My other questions is regarding the turntable in the Great Hall. I've seen a comment or two saying they don't use this now - they used to do daily turntable demos here. Have they stopped this and has this gone for good?

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on the work that is going on. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it will be a net improvement. I used to attend more or less every year but haven't had chance to go since the lockdowns. I hope it will still be an enjoyable visit when I return.

 

[AngusH]

I'm not very hopeful, although I really hope I'm wrong on this.

There's a tendency these days to see science and engineering museums as mostly something for small children
and school visits.


Specifically for this museum it looks like the current senior management are historians rather than engineers.

The advisory board does have some engineers, but I'm not clear how much influence they have on matters.

The closing of the working railway workshop to be replaced with "wonderlab", something that
seems mostly an interactive exhibit for children, seems a bad sign.

NRM prepares to close The Works as part of museum revamp | Heritage Railway Magazine

THE National Railway Museum has confirmed that the workshop at York is to close in order to create both more gallery space and more space for displaying rol ...

www.heritagerailway.co.uk

Insiders say that this is one of the main reasons behind the decision by NRM management to call a halt on the restoration of Class 55 Deltic No. 55002 The King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, as museum officials want to get started on converting the area into a display space as soon as possible so it can achieve its stated aim of completing the conversion, which forms part of a larger revamp project, by 2021. It is believed that work will commence in earnest once the A4 departs.

NRM loco workshop to close

Once Sir Nigel is finished, the NRM York will shut down it workshop to make room for more display space, something they are calling "wonderlab" what i guess will as a display of what workshops are like, which i see as a bit ironic as they are changing a working workshop into a fake one https://ww...

www.rmweb.co.uk

Once Sir Nigel is finished, the NRM York will shut down it workshop to make room for more display space, something they are calling "wonderlab" what i guess will as a display of what workshops are like, which i see as a bit ironic as they are changing a working workshop into a fake one

slightly reworded.

 

[Lloyds siding]

Unfortunately if you go to the Science and Industry museum in Manchester, the Power Hall (where the railway exhibits are) and the 1830 railway station are both closed for repair and restoration, to reopen this year I believe.
The Air and Space halls have closed permanently and are no longer part of the museum (the leases have been relinquished).
The main New Warehouse (with the industrial heritage exhibits and main entrance) is to close for refurbishment in Autumn.
In common with many museums, and indeed, any organisation that receives government money, the new philosophy is to maximise income and reduce the need for public funds...hence the ubiquitous cafes and tea shoppes.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Where are the locos going whilst this work is taking place? I've only read about the Western going to Didcot? Shildon hasn't any space for anything; the 2 BIL is shamefully boxed in so one can hardly marvel at it.

 

[Russel]

I'm hoping they don't make The Station Hall too light and modern as the low level of lighting is all part of the atmosphere and character for me

 

[ryan125hst]

I'm not very hopeful, although I really hope I'm wrong on this.

There's a tendency these days to see science and engineering museums as mostly something for small children
and school visits.


Specifically for this museum it looks like the current senior management are historians rather than engineers.

The advisory board does have some engineers, but I'm not clear how much influence they have on matters.

The closing of the working railway workshop to be replaced with "wonderlab", something that
seems mostly an interactive exhibit for children, seems a bad sign.

That's what worries me. Museums need to appeal to children and get them interested but they equally need to appeal to adults, both casual visitors and enthusiasts. I hope the latter isn't lost.

I'm not against the idea of the Wonderlab. As an Engineer I do believe we need to get more children interested in STEM subjects. However, it's a shame the workshop has been lost to create this as surely the worksop is also interesting for kids to see and may inspire them to get into engineering. I also hope they don't charge for it as that will put barriers up in the cost of living crisis we are in.

Unfortunately if you go to the Science and Industry museum in Manchester, the Power Hall (where the railway exhibits are) and the 1830 railway station are both closed for repair and restoration, to reopen this year I believe.
The Air and Space halls have closed permanently and are no longer part of the museum (the leases have been relinquished).
The main New Warehouse (with the industrial heritage exhibits and main entrance) is to close for refurbishment in Autumn.
In common with many museums, and indeed, any organisation that receives government money, the new philosophy is to maximise income and reduce the need for public funds...hence the ubiquitous cafes and tea shoppes.

I first visited MOSI around 20 years ago as a child (and I feel old saying this!) and it was great. The last time I went was to see Tim Peake's space capsule in 2018 (worth it for this). The Electricity and Gas galleries had closed as had Underground Manchester, the railway ceased operating following the construction of the Ordsall Chord and the Power Hall was no longer steaming the engines. Since then, the Air and Space building has closed. There's really nothing worth left there. It's such a shame

I'm hoping they don't make The Station Hall too light and modern as the low level of lighting is all part of the atmosphere and character for me

That might be the case as the skylights don't currently let in much light due to the build up of dirt and they are installing windows at the yard end so let in more light. It'll make taking photos easier I suppose.

 

[plugwash]

That might be the case as the skylights don't currently let in much light due to the build up of dirt and they are installing windows at the yard end so let in more light. It'll make taking photos easier I suppose.

Working stations don't generally have end walls where the trains come in. So a glass end wall on one that has been converted to a museum doesn't seem terriblly out of place to me.

 

[Russel]

That might be the case as the skylights don't currently let in much light due to the build up of dirt and they are installing windows at the yard end so let in more light. It'll make taking photos easier I suppose.

As long as it doesn't end up as bright as a dentists waiting room it'll be fine I suppose.

 

[DanNCL]

Rocket has arrived at Shildon. Most of the collection in Station Hall is staying in there whilst the work takes place.

 

[ian1944]

Re. museum workshops, about 15 years ago I visited the Oxford Bus and Morris Motors Museum at Hanborough station and really appreciated the viewing gallery above, and in easy conversational range of, the workshop where a craftsman was involved with an old Morris car. He was happy to talk about what he was doing, apparently appreciative of the interest being shown. I don't know if things there are still the same, and anyway there's a big difference between a big national museum with professional staff and one run by volunteers. But I see the closure of the workshop at York as regrettable and don't like the direction in which the place seems to be going.

 

[alexl92]

My worry is that theyve cited the National Media Museum as a previous example of the Wonderlab concept. Last time I went, that museum managed to take what should be fascinating content and make it the dullest museum.m

 

[Alanko]

I'm sensing parallels with changes to the RAF museum at Hendon. Purists want a shed full of machines, yards of interpretation and every possible trinket and relic on display. Museum curators are trying to go in the opposite collection, often butting up against the size and scarcity of the artefacts. I think curators and managers now have rich backgrounds in managing and curating museums, rather than the technical subject matter. In general they are shifting away from a STEM-focus unless it has a slant to it (how do we get girls/children/minorities into STEM fields), probably in line with the UK's shift away from heavy industry.

Museums in general are going the direction of the V&A in Dundee. Keen to spell out the wider social context and impact of a whittled down display of a handful of artefacts, especially if there is a controversial or problematic element to them. In turn visitors can find it all a bit baffling. "Where is everything?"

At least in the world of aircraft you can go to the museum at Hawkinge and read paragraphs of type-written text for every excavated fragment of aircraft wreck. I'm not sure of a railway museum that would serve as a similar counterpoint to the slick proposals in mind for York?

 

[yorksrob]

Being able to look down onto the workshop was always a good point of interest for the NRM. Will be a shame if it goes.

 

[ryan125hst]

My worry is that theyve cited the National Media Museum as a previous example of the Wonderlab concept. Last time I went, that museum managed to take what should be fascinating content and make it the dullest museum.m

I've never visited the National Media Museum. I did see online they had a TV gallery at one point that I thought looked interesting, a behind the scenes look at TV with TV cameras etc. They closed that so I've not bothered visiting.

I'm sensing parallels with changes to the RAF museum at Hendon. Purists want a shed full of machines, yards of interpretation and every possible trinket and relic on display. Museum curators are trying to go in the opposite collection, often butting up against the size and scarcity of the artefacts. I think curators and managers now have rich backgrounds in managing and curating museums, rather than the technical subject matter. In general they are shifting away from a STEM-focus unless it has a slant to it (how do we get girls/children/minorities into STEM fields), probably in line with the UK's shift away from heavy industry.

They're making changes at the RAF museum Cosford too. My family and I's favourite hangar is the one containing various prototype aircraft, suhc as the TSR2, British Aerospace EAP, English Electric Lightning concepts etc. They also have a fascinating prone position Gloster Meteor where the pilot flies lying down as an experiment for combating g-forces, but they are altering the hanger and moving the prone position Meteor, and probably others, out.

Being able to look down onto the workshop was always a good point of interest for the NRM. Will be a shame if it goes.

It's already closed and work is underway I believe.

 

[yorksrob]

It's already closed and work is underway I believe.

A shame if so be !

 

[rg177]

A shame if so be !

Thankfully its still there at Shildon. Despite the smaller size of that site, I was impressed that they still take a great deal of pride in actively working on rail vehicles and explaining to the public what they're up to.

A shame nonetheless. I used to find the workshop fascinating as a kid!

 

[yorksrob]

Thankfully its still there at Shildon. Despite the smaller size of that site, I was impressed that they still take a great deal of pride in actively working on rail vehicles and explaining to the public what they're up to.

A shame nonetheless. I used to find the workshop fascinating as a kid!

Indeed, good though Shildon is, York is more accessible for most of the country and should be at the forfront.

 

[rg177]

Indeed, good though Shildon is, York is more accessible for most of the country and should be at the forfront.

Agreed. Even as a Geordie - York is actually easier. My visit last week to Shildon for work was the first time in near enough a decade!

 

[eldomtom2]

I'm sensing parallels with changes to the RAF museum at Hendon. Purists want a shed full of machines, yards of interpretation and every possible trinket and relic on display. Museum curators are trying to go in the opposite collection, often butting up against the size and scarcity of the artefacts. I think curators and managers now have rich backgrounds in managing and curating museums, rather than the technical subject matter. In general they are shifting away from a STEM-focus unless it has a slant to it (how do we get girls/children/minorities into STEM fields), probably in line with the UK's shift away from heavy industry.

Museums in general are going the direction of the V&A in Dundee. Keen to spell out the wider social context and impact of a whittled down display of a handful of artefacts, especially if there is a controversial or problematic element to them. In turn visitors can find it all a bit baffling. "Where is everything?"

There is definitely a strong feeling in academia that "proper" history is politics, society, and economics, and anything else is only worthwhile if looked at through those lenses.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

There is definitely a strong feeling in academia that "proper" history is politics, society, and economics, and anything else is only worthwhile if looked at through those lenses.

Sounds horribly like an echo of Thatcher and her distinct aversion to any economic activity that required participants to sweat on a regular basis.

 

[John Luxton]

I'm hoping they don't make The Station Hall too light and modern as the low level of lighting is all part of the atmosphere and character for me

Whilst it is somewhat atmospheric it is a bit too dark, makes photography tricky. In my book it needs to be more like Steam at Swindon much brighter.

 

[eldomtom2]

Sounds horribly like an echo of Thatcher and her distinct aversion to any economic activity that required participants to sweat on a regular basis.

Ironically? said prejudice often comes from the Left.

 

[102 fan]

When did they drop the word 'National' off the name?

About us | National Railway Museum

Find out who we are and what we're up to.

www.railwaymuseum.org.uk

Link takes to a page just saying 'Railway Museeum'. No National?

 

[pdeaves]

When did they drop the word 'National' off the name?

About us | National Railway Museum

Find out who we are and what we're up to.

www.railwaymuseum.org.uk

Link takes to a page just saying 'Railway Museeum'. No National?

That was a few years ago, I think.

 

[102 fan]

That was a few years ago, I think.

Why? Isn't it national anymore?

 

[Russel]

Why? Isn't it national anymore?

If we're going down that route, they have exhibits from outside of the UK, so should it have been International Railway Museum?

Or does it not actually matter to 99.9% of visitors?

 

[DanNCL]

If we're going down that route, they have exhibits from outside of the UK, so should it have been International Railway Museum?

Or does it not actually matter to 99.9% of visitors?

There is only one exhibit in there with zero relevance to the UK whatsoever - the Shinkansen. All of the other exhibits there have some connection to the UK, even the Chinese loco was built at Vulcan Foundry.

 

[DarloRich]

The same tired arguments about changes to the NRM are being raised time and again. Most people don't want to go and see a stuffy museum with one type of everything crammed in. I know people here find that hard to compute but it is reality.

At least in the world of aircraft you can go to the museum at Hawkinge and read paragraphs of type-written text for every excavated fragment of aircraft wreck. I'm not sure of a railway museum that would serve as a similar counterpoint to the slick proposals in mind for York?

is that the one where you cant take pictures? It always seems a very stuffy place when I read about it.

Being able to look down onto the workshop was always a good point of interest for the NRM. Will be a shame if it goes.

I don't think I have ever seen any work underway in that area. if looking at silent lathes is your thing you will be upset by this closure!

There is definitely a strong feeling in academia that "proper" history is politics, society, and economics, and anything else is only worthwhile if looked at through those lenses.

And which if those areas are the railways not part of? The societal impact alone of the coming of the railways is incredible. What other lens should the railway be looked at though?

Specifically for this museum it looks like the current senior management are historians rather than engineers.

So? it is a museum not an engineering workshop or a working railway. It is designed as place to teach people about the history of the railways and display artefacts in relation to that.

the 2 BIL is shamefully boxed in so one can hardly marvel at it.

what is a 2 BIL? what does that mean to little Jonny? What story does it tell us? The story is the key. That is what the museum is there to do - to tell a story using it's exhibits.

I get that is very different to what enthusiasts want from a collection.

I'm hoping they don't make The Station Hall too light and modern as the low level of lighting is all part of the atmosphere and character for me

it is dark an dingy and needs much more light. Ideally natural light

Museums in general are going the direction of the V&A in Dundee. Keen to spell out the wider social context and impact of a whittled down display of a handful of artefacts, especially if there is a controversial or problematic element to them. In turn visitors can find it all a bit baffling. "Where is everything?"

Why is context such a problem? We seem to have real issue in this country with honesty and transparency when it comes to history. Not all of our history is good or clean and not all of railway history is good or clean.

There isn't going to be a "spectacle" issue at NRM. The great hall is full of locomotives that kids can run around and touch. That isn't going to change and that is heart of the museum. You can touch mallard or FS. These are the most famous locomotives in the world and you can touch them. You cant to that in many museums!

Personally I would get rid of some of the things in the great hall and focus more on the stars that people have come to see. Those stars, btw, don't include many diesels or suburban units

 

[yorksrob]

The same tired arguments about changes to the NRM are being raised time and again. Most people don't want to go and see a stuffy museum with one type of everything crammed in. I know people here find that hard to compute but it is reality.



is that the one where you cant take pictures? It always seems a very stuffy place when I read about it.


I don't think I have ever seen any work underway in that area. if looking at silent lathes is your thing you will be upset by this closure!


And which if those areas are the railways not part of? The societal impact alone of the coming of the railways is incredible. What other lens should the railway be looked at though?


So? it is a museum not an engineering workshop or a working railway. It is designed as place to teach people about the history of the railways and display artefacts in relation to that.


what is a 2 BIL? what does that mean to little Jonny? What story does it tell us? The story is the key. That is what the museum is there to do - to tell a story using it's exhibits.

I get that is very different to what enthusiasts want from a collection.

it is dark an dingy and needs much more light. Ideally natural light

Why is context such a problem? We seem to have real issue in this country with honesty and transparency when it comes to history. Not all of our history is good or clean and not all of railway history is good or clean.

There isn't going to be a "spectacle" issue at NRM. The great hall is full of locomotives that kids can run around and touch. That isn't going to change and that is heart of the museum. You can touch mallard or FS. These are the most famous locomotives in the world and you can touch them. You cant to that in many museums!

Personally I would get rid of some of the things in the great hall and focus more on the stars that people have come to see. Those stars, btw, don't include many diesels or suburban units

"The Stars" are all well and good, but out of context, they don't tell much of the story to little Johnny, or indeed Uncle Frank (who just wants something interesting to look at and read about while Aunt Doris is out shopping in York).

More mundane electric/diesel trains are part of that and as I understand it, will form part of the revamped museum.

 

[DarloRich]

"The Stars" are all well and good, but out of context, they don't tell much of the story to little Johnny, or indeed Uncle Frank (who just wants something interesting to look at and read about while Aunt Doris is out shopping in York).

More mundane electric/diesel trains are part of that and as I understand it, will form part of the revamped museum.

I am sure they will - but the point is that the NRM doesn't need one of everything. It also doesn't really need anything diesel wise beyond a Deltic and HST as they continue the FS/Mallard "storyline". Maybe chuck in a 37 as a ubiquitous do anything diesel that could take over from several steamers and we are away. Once they get a 91 everything will be finished collection wise anyway

You are correct that the context is crucially important but that context doesn't mean in relation to every other steam loco or how this one had inside motion and that one had wallcharts gears or whatever. It means in context to the prevailing time and how the object in front of you was an upgrade on the one over there and/or why it was crucially important to the development of the railways and/or the service offered by railways.

EDIT - I am sure the changes mentioned by the OP will presage a change of direction. That seems obvious. Personally that doesn't worry me as along as they don't remove too much from the great hall as the central exhibits have enough presence and story to stand on their own. As it is the station hall is of little interest really. The Royal trains are very nice but do they speak to 21st century people? Doe we need to see all of them?

When I was a child the NRM was not free so a visit was a great treat that might, if I was lucky, happen once a year. Maybe twice if I could persuade a grandparent to take me. When my children were small the museum was free and we went all the time. The kids had a route they always followed around several key exhibits and they weren't the only ones doing the same. What they wanted to see was obvious. It wasn't a Western. Sadly it wasn't even a Deltic! It was Mallard, FS ( If it was ever there - which it wasn't as it was in pieces most of the time) Duchess of Sutherland, the giant Chinese loco, the bullet train, the turntable, the locomotive you could walk under ( no idea why!) Rocket then the gift shop. If Grandad came sometimes they were interested in more modern trains because he could talk about travelling on them and had a story for them.

Having essentially unrestricted access to those exhibits is what is important. I cant see that they are at risk in these changes. The key for me is that the museum remans free and that will only happen if enough families visit and buy things.