Negative perception of booking offices and clerks

[blackpoolsouth]

My experience of ticket offices varies significantly. Wakefield Westgate have some excellent staff, they were able to excess a ticket I'd bought in error from a TVM without fuss. My worst experience was at Manchester Victoria last year, initially there was no one behind the counter despite 2 windows being open and it was a good 2-3 minutes until someone appeared. The clerk then struggled to issue a GM Wayfarer, and I was instead sold a Derbyshire Wayfarer. Fortunately I'd realised before I left the window as the price didn't seem right and in the end had to bring up the details of the ticket on my phone to help her. The transaction must have taken 10 minutes for what was a fairly simple ticket. When buying a GM Wayfarer I now use Oxford Road as they are much more efficient and knowledgeable.

No excuses, reflects on the training this person has rather than the individual and proof that periodical checks on knowledge and competency should be implemented

As for the Derbyshire one it shouldn't be issued outside the area if memory serves.

Personally I'd still prefer person to person contact but that's because I know the role is under threat

 

[L401CJF]

My experience of ticket offices is mixed, though I always use them in preference to a machine (if they exist).

If I'm somewhere unfamiliar, I risk not noticing if a machine isn't giving me an option I don't already know about. Recently, for example, I tried to buy a ticket from a machine at Chester, but my card wouldn't work; it was only then that I realised there was a ticket office tucked away that I hadn't noticed, and went there instead. It was lucky the machine wouldn't sell me my ticket because there was a local ticket I knew nothing about (and hadn't seen on the machine - perhaps because you had to know it existed in order to find it?) which was cheaper. I hadn't asked for it at the ticket office, and was surprised to be given a ticket which had a different name and a lower price which would do the same job (and more, in fact). That's the sort of experience that keeps me preferring ticket offices.

Sounds to me like the Merseyrail Day Saver perhaps rather than a single/return?

I'm not sure if these are available on the TVMs at Chester, though they are prominent on Merseyrails own TVMs.

From personal experience the office staff at Chester are usually pretty good, and Merseyrail office staff seem to be good too even for odd requests whenever I have used them.

A few years ago the booking office staff at Manchester Airport helped me out when the gateline staff refused to let me back into the station with a Cheshire Day Ranger. It wouldn't open the gates for whatever reason and was then told it wasn't in the valid area! A quick trip to the booking office with the gate staff, where they were told they were wrong. I always carry a validity map with me now if I'm using a ranger just incase.

 

[jupiter]

It’s a real mixed experience for me. Some of the people you talk to are brilliant, others gruff and huffy, just like in real life I suppose.

I would have thought after a few years you’d have encyclopaedic knowledge and the enthusiasm that comes from that.

 

[Barnsley]

The flipside to this, is that I sometimes have customers asking me to sell them a cheap split ticket they've been offered online- but the website doesn't expand to tell you what the combination of tickets is, so it would literally be a guessing game trying to work it out, whereas the customer sees my inability to suss it out as me being incompetent.

Exactly this, some sites don't expand, so when they come to ask for the split fare, I have no idea what the site is trying to sell them!

 

[NeilCr]

As said the vast majority of travellers are not going to have the detailed knowledge apparent on here - nor will they be making a "complicated" journey

I suspect all they want is a quick and polite service with information available where necessary

I've switched to E tickets now - except for one journey where I am reimbursed and they require physical evidence. However I've found the ticket office staff at Ramsgate helpful and knowledgable - one of the advantages, perhaps, of them remaining is that as a fairly regular traveller I got to know them a bit

Must say I feel for them sometimes. A London train is due in the next ten to fifteen minutes and someone is asking a complicated question about a trip next month. They can see and feel the growing and impatient queue growing but remain unfailingly polite - as of course they should

Still a reluctance for some people to use TVMs in that situation (indeed at all) - and/or there is just as big a queue there

 

[kristiang85]

I generally try to avoid using my local office, as the older/senior staff there just make you feel like an inconvenience on their day, and unfortunately they seem to be the ones there most often. The newer staff are fine though and seem to be a lot more helpful rather than just grunting.

Sadly I wouldn't miss it that much if it was gone, but TVMs really need to be updated to allow for more flexible purchasing (eg allowing you to purchase Gold card tickets before 9.30, even if the train you want is after 9.30, which is the main reason I have to go to the ticket office).

 

[riceuten]

I haven't used one in years but my dad always does. They always manage to talk him into buying a day travel card for London even though an off peak return and using contactless on the tube is significantly cheaper

Soon to be history if TfL get their way.

 

[majarex]

The staff in Luton is very professional and friendly.

 

[Triddle]

I have the usual mixed experience with ticket staff, but on balance very positive. However, it remains a mystery to me how I have never, ever succeeded in buying a CIV ticket to/from S. Pancras. Even if you tell them the station code LNE, they can't find it, have never heard of it, it's not in the system, their computer wants 5 letters not 3 etc etc. Anyone know why this is so hard for them?

I notice the RailUKforums ticketing site offers CIV tickets to LNE, so that's (sadly) one purchase less from the ticket office, even though I really do want them to stay.

 

[Edsmith]

I haven't used one in years but my dad always does. They always manage to talk him into buying a day travel card for London even though an off peak return and using contactless on the tube is significantly cheaper

I've noticed that in a few places, pushing a travelcard onto someone when there are probably cheaper options.

 

[Markdvdman]

I find the staff in Llanelli and Port Talbot are decent - but maybe lucky whenever I use them. However, with the price of walk on fares bein ridiculous I tend to buy in advance on the TFW app. However, at a push I make sure I am buying split tickets if it is possible!

 

[robert thomas]

The staff at Neath are excellent and will split tickets automatically for people without being asked if they know that it's cheaper.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The staff at Neath are excellent and will split tickets automatically for people without being asked if they know that it's cheaper.

Which is called "being clever" and may be unhelpful, as per one of my Bletchley examples above.

Offer it by all means, but never, ever do it automatically.

 

[robert thomas]

Which is called "being clever" and may be unhelpful, as per one of my Bletchley examples above.

Offer it by all means, but never, ever do it automatically.

In fairness they always explain what they are doing and why so that if it doesn't suit the passenger it can be refused.

 

[riceuten]

The staff at Stevenage Station are very efficient and kind and very helpful - a day trip to Peterborough at bit back, the officer said (before the introduction of Super Off peak tickets) it was cheaper to issue us with a return to Huntingdon and a return from there to Peterborough (and indeed it was). They will also sell you an off peak ticket to London at 9.18 after the departure of the 9.17 train. And they will indulge someone who spends ten minutes in front of you planning and pricing a trip to Lincoln on various days and times and then walk away without a ticket.

All of this said, I personally rarely use the ticket office, as I can either use my smartcard, the TVM or my phone. The only time I go to the ticket office is to buy the limited number of tickets I know exist but the phone or TVM won't sell me (or indeed are not available on either - most PlusBus and the Line2Line tickets, for instance). Also, Network Cards are available instantly rather than having to wait for it to turn up in the post, or get an electronic one and hope your battery complies.

And that's the way it should be - ticket offices for tickets not sold online or at the TVMs - for whatever reason, and people who want to spend ages planning trips. I am mildly irritated when I read posts that say "my ticket office are useless, therefore we should get rid of all staff". It should be noted ticket office staff are paid a pittance and subject to a lot of aggro - would YOU do their job?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In fairness they always explain what they are doing and why so that if it doesn't suit the passenger it can be refused.

Good stuff. As mentioned above I've had a trip messed up by a member of booking office staff thinking they were being helpful when they weren't.

 

[PeterC]

One of the key skills needed working in travel / tourism is not having an encyclopaedic knowledge of the entire world but knowing how to use the "encyclopaedia" (and which one to use) to access the information you need.

In a totally different field I had a reputation as an "expert" simply because I was the only one who knew my way around the manuals.

Like any branch based organisation some outlets are good and some poor.

 

[Jim the Jim]

Cambridge North has no booking office, and there's frequently confused people at the TVMs holding up other passengers and then having to ask the (very pleasant) staff for help. If you need to have staff permanently manning the machines you might as well give them the ability to sell tickets themselves, surely?

 

[robert thomas]

Cambridge North has no booking office, and there's frequently confused people at the TVMs holding up other passengers and then having to ask the (very pleasant) staff for help. If you need to have staff permanently manning the machines you might as well give them the ability to sell tickets themselves, surely?

That's too obvious

 

[zwk500]

Cambridge North has no booking office, and there's frequently confused people at the TVMs holding up other passengers and then having to ask the (very pleasant) staff for help. If you need to have staff permanently manning the machines you might as well give them the ability to sell tickets themselves, surely?

Having the staff assist but the machines handle the cash is less risky and easier for the company and staff. It also means the staff can be flexible if there's not a problem at the TVMs, they can offer other assistance.

 

[TheDavibob]

Cambridge North has no booking office, and there's frequently confused people at the TVMs holding up other passengers and then having to ask the (very pleasant) staff for help. If you need to have staff permanently manning the machines you might as well give them the ability to sell tickets themselves, surely?

There's an interesting issue here, too - the staff get very good and proactive at helping people use the machines, so people who don't need help using the machines sometimes have to bat them away (this is mostly driven by the Kings Cross/Liverpool Street split, to be fair - it's not particularly intuitive for most). There isn't the usual obvious split between "people who need a bit of help" and "people who don't" which you get from having both booths and machines.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cambridge North has no booking office, and there's frequently confused people at the TVMs holding up other passengers and then having to ask the (very pleasant) staff for help. If you need to have staff permanently manning the machines you might as well give them the ability to sell tickets themselves, surely?

Give a man a fish, and he'll eat well that day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat well every day.

 

[miklcct]

Incorrect processing of excesses and/or claims they don't exist, e.g. charging the full difference rather than half on a route excess and insisting they are right.

I'd say that this is due to inadequate training as I had the same experience in the past at an SWR station. The staff didn't realise that it could be done, and after I asked him to read the manual, he could do it correctly.

 

[robbeech]

People want to buy tickets to travel. For those who wish to buy a physical ticket from a person, they want to buy them from friendly, knowledgeable staff that will sell them the best regular ticket for their journey. I would suspect that for the most part they are uninterested if that member of staff is stuck behind glass or out and about around the station doing other duties with a mobile machine.
Unfortunately we see reports of ticket office staff not having the extensive knowledge required to sell the full range of tickets, and in some cases, barely having the knowledge required to sell anything remotely different. Add this to a (very rare but documented on this forum) poor attitude when it comes to helping passengers and there's little wonder people form negative views, and there's little wonder the number of tickets they sell is falling causing operators to consider their closure.

 

[Bluejays]

I've generally had good experiences with ticket offices. I do think that how good or bad they are is largely irrelevant to their inevitable demise though. The rise of e-tickets means that ticket offices at most stations are going to have to shrink or change. That's not a reflection on the ticket offices or staff, just a sign that times are changing

 

[riceuten]

Unfortunately we see reports of ticket office staff not having the extensive knowledge required to sell the full range of tickets, and in some cases, barely having the knowledge required to sell anything remotely different. Add this to a (very rare but documented on this forum) poor attitude when it comes to helping passengers and there's little wonder people form negative views, and there's little wonder the number of tickets they sell is falling causing operators to consider their closure.

I think if you employ people on terrible terms and conditions and don't train them, this is probably going to happen.

I've generally had good experiences with ticket offices. I do think that how good or bad they are is largely irrelevant to their inevitable demise though. The rise of e-tickets means that ticket offices at most stations are going to have to shrink or change. That's not a reflection on the ticket offices or staff, just a sign that times are changing

I think that rededicating ticket offices to help people with lengthier queries is probably for the best. The reality is that TOCs want everyone to buy their (electronic) tickets online and use them to operate the electronic gates at either end.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think if you employ people on terrible terms and conditions and don't train them, this is probably going to happen.

This is why rather than closing them all we would be better off having a smaller number of very well trained staff with a decent level of responsibility at larger stations only. That I find works well with self service banking - with Monzo for instance I can do almost everything myself, but if I'm stuck I can chat with someone who really knows their stuff because they don't need many of them so they can be better paid and skilled.

The likes of the Merseyrail booking office with a bloke sat there producing returns to Liverpool and day tickets which could be dealt with via a simplified TVM with four buttons on it (adult and child version of each) and a contactless pad, or even tap in/out contactless, is just silly. But what the railway would benefit from is access to a problem solver, where you can spend some time resolving a complex issue and they have the ability and authority to resolve it regardless of the original sales channel.

 

[43066]

Good stuff. As mentioned above I've had a trip messed up by a member of booking office staff thinking they were being helpful when they weren't.

So they’re damned either way. 90% of people would want the cheapest option, 10% might have some obscure reason not for wanting split tickets. Better to err on the side of the 90%. If you have particular reasons to ask for specific tickets it’s surely better to buy them yourself and explain this to the seller.

Unfortunately we see reports of ticket office staff not having the extensive knowledge required to sell the full range of tickets, and in some cases, barely having the knowledge required to sell anything remotely different. Add this to a (very rare but documented on this forum) poor attitude when it comes to helping passengers and there's little wonder people form negative views, and there's little wonder the number of tickets they sell is falling causing operators to consider their closure.

The offices are closing to save costs, and because the way people buy tickets has changed. It has nothing to do with the attitudes of the staff manning them.

I think if you employ people on terrible terms and conditions and don't train them, this is probably going to happen.


I think that rededicating ticket offices to help people with lengthier queries is probably for the best. The reality is that TOCs want everyone to buy their (electronic) tickets online and use them to operate the electronic gates at either end.

Yep - people should expect less training and less knowledgable staff in future! And likely fewer cheap ticketing options…

 

[Bletchleyite]

So they’re damned either way. 90% of people would want the cheapest option, 10% might have some obscure reason not for wanting split tickets. Better to err on the side of the 90%. If you have particular reasons to ask for tickets it’s better to buy them yourself and explain this to the seller.

No. What they should do is explain that they've found a cheaper option, explain the limitations it may have and ask if they do want it or would prefer what they asked for.

For instance, I might rock up at MKC and ask for a single to Preston. The obvious thing to do from this is to issue an Anytime or Off Peak Single as appropriate to the time. But if there is an Advance applicable, the right thing to do isn't just to issue it, but rather to say "I have a cheap Advance offer for you - it's £20 cheaper than an Off Peak Single, but you'll have to use the next Avanti train and won't be able to stop off anywhere on the way - would you like that?" And I go "No, thanks, I'm going via Manchester and will want to grab some food there, but thanks for pointing it out". The Off Peak Single is issued and everyone's happy - the staff because they've used their professional skill helpfully even if the cheaper option wasn't taken, and the customer because they have experienced a discussion with a professional member of staff offering options and they've chosen the right one for their intentions.

So in my Bletchley example, it might have been something like - "I can do you this instead, but you'll all need to travel together all day", which would have been met with "No, that doesn't work as we don't intend to do that, but thanks for looking", and again everyone is happy. The member of staff concerned who's been there a while isn't unhelpful, but she failed to explain something that was absolutely key to the utility of the tickets.

 

[Fleetmaster]

The offices are closing to save costs, and because the way people buy tickets has changed. It has nothing to do with the attitudes of the staff manning them.

The casual disinterest of theoretically privatized staff now squarely in a customer service roles, was certainly a big factor in me deciding to bite the bullet and figure out the early ticket machines back when chip and pin was new, and latterly Trainline.com

I think many people assume they're still necessary for elderly or disabled passengers, but I think these are the very customers for whom encountering an unhelpful staff member after the already quite uncomfortable experience of getting to and navigating through a modern station (often as an additional visit to their later journey, since they don't tend to travel spontaneously), is the thing that persuades them to bite the bullet and figure out what their alternatives actually are.