Negative perception of booking offices and clerks

[island]

That doesn't necessarily mean keeping ticket offices open. Look at retails banks, they moved a lot of staff from behind a counter to helping in the room. It gives them more flexibility. You can still help when someone needs specific service but when they arent directly with a customer activity they can help passengers in other ways

The staff in my local Barclays branch used to be behind a counter generalists, now they are standing in the banking hall and the only things they can say are "you need to use the machine for that" or "you need an appointment for that and we don't have any appointments available".

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I've had a few good experiences of booking office staff, but I've found far more of them to be bad at their jobs and unwilling to be corrected. Examples:

1. Refusal of an Off Peak Day Single to Bedford at City Thameslink in the evening because "it's peak" when that ticket has no evening restrictions.
2. Incorrect processing of excesses and/or claims they don't exist, e.g. charging the full difference rather than half on a route excess and insisting they are right.
3. Trying to be "helpful" when I'd sent someone to a booking office to ask for a very specific set of tickets; the tickets we got didn't allow us to split our group up as we wanted and we didn't have time to argue as the train was due shortly.
4. Claiming tickets aren't valid via a route where they are.
5. Saying "Yer'll 'aft'a go ter Lime Streets* fer dat" for anything other than a return to Liverpool. (Experienced repeatedly at Merseyrail booking offices in my lifetime, so it's not a new thing).

* That's the Scouse diphthong "ts", one sound, as in "tsarts", i.e. "tart", obviously referring to Mr Kipling's finest strawberry filled comestibles.

If I spent time I'd think of more.

I prefer to use a TVM or my phone because most of the time it at least knows what the rules are and follows them correctly.

A booking office should be a source of quality, professional advice with true knowledge of the fares system, superb training and a willingness to check things out if they aren't sure so they learn something more. It's almost something that should be an academic pursuit with the complexity of the system so they can better advise people about it.

Unfortunately most of them are nothing of the sort and are thus priming themselves for redundancy. If you spend the time to post about it on here I'd imagine you're better, but sadly in my experience this really is an exception.

I would like them to stay but they really need to improve their training and performance monitoring to ensure they really are providing the highest quality professional advice. Like people on the phone in e.g. banks, we probably need a smaller number of them but for them to be much better.

I've had no problem buying exotic combinations of split tickets and/or rovers for my Saturday football excursions at Ellesmere Port (on the previous Friday) and Hooton ticket offices. ME TVMs also now sell a range of tickets from other stations up to three days in advance.

My worst ever experience was trying to buy return tickets from Widnes to Sheffield in the 1980s using a Voyager card (an experimental railcard - remember them?). The clerk was unable to sell me a ticket on the ancient machine he had - so I was told to pay on the train where the ticket inspector treated me like a criminal for not buying a ticket before boarding and then me objecting when asked to pay the full undiscounted fare. The hassle got worse at the barrier at Sheffield station. It's a long story and multiple correspondence ensued with various powers that be and consultative councils. The experience turned me into a rail campaigner.

Other bad experiences from BR days include being told "You can't reach Burnley from here" at Bradford Forster Square, which meant I never got to cop the Skipton - Colne line, and even "You can't reach Leeds from here"! I also remember being aghast at Bradford Exchange when I asked what the day return fare to Gainsborough was (31/-). So I asked could if I could just buy a CDR to Doncaster and rebook. I was told, presumably incorrectly at the time, "You're not meant to have two day returns".

More recently, i.e. about 10 years ago, I remember the lady in the ticket office at Crewe being rather unpleasant to a disabled gentleman because he hadn't booked assistance in advance.

But these days most ticket office staff are very helpful - but it does help if you do your research in advance and know exactly what you want.

 

[Westerndiesels]

I always find booking office and train guards helpful and good humoured.
I understand if you're the only member of staff in a small station and everyone want to come in five minutes before the only train for two hours leaves then you're not going to be engaging in jokes and conversation.
But I've never found them rude even then. If they have time I've found people good at explaining stuff and taking pride in their job.

That's mainly GWR or Southwest for me so not representing everywhere of course.

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm going to call "yes and no" on this one.

One of the absolute worst design changes on gatelines in recent years has been the introduction of automatic wide gates and correspondingly the staff at said gatelines no longer being in a single, obvious position where one can find them if one has a problem, and where a queue of people with problems can form.

Every gateline really should have a marked place where the staff stand.

I'm not suggesting it's a perfect solution, merely there is a precedent in a relatively similar level of customer query complexity where a counter has been removed. My point is there can be ways to preserve the benefits of a human interface where needed, that add greater benefits than being in a ticket office.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

I've mainly had positive experiences with ticket offices, but I rarely use them now.

Two bad experience still stick in the memory when I was trying to buy a Lapworth-Hatton season ticket at two GTR stations.

Firstly the person at Three Bridges accused me of fraud for asking to buy the ticket. Never got an explanation why.

I then tried at Horsham, who kept making up excuses on why they couldn't sell it, with other staff in ticket office, backing up their colleagues excuses.
You need to buy at Hatton or Lapworth Stations - I pointed out neither had a ticket office.
We can't reprint that season ticket if it stops working in the barrier - I pointed out the NRCoT said different.
They then seem to relent, then asked if I wanted a weekly or monthly.
I said Annual and they said they could not sell it.
I not sure if they were just lazy, or had been told not to sell out of region season tickets.

For several years I bought that season at Marylebone, who were always excellent, who always seem surprized, and remarked how cheap ticket was.

 

[Master29]

Although I liked BR as a whole booking clerks back then did seem to be of a certain persona. My local station at Chingford for years had a classic example of how not to do customer service. I think he was a bit mutton Jeff to be honest. I hope I`m not offending any of his relatives alive now however. He wasn't alone either.

 

[railfan99]

4) Rudeness to customers, exactly why should anyone else defend your job if that's how you treat paying customers?

Last year when on a Eurailpass, I chatted with an excellent male booking clerk at Warrington Bank Quay. We exchanged 'rail tales' from my nation and his.

Conversely, at Glasgow Queen Street, a rude woman refused to reserve a seat on a train departing from Glasgow Central. She said words to the effect of 'they do that'.

A male booking clerk at London Paddington was even worse, telling me off for trying to reserve a berth on the 'Night Riviera' on the night of travel. I tried to explain I'd not been in the UK long, and how GWR declines to accept foreign issued credit cards as payment over the phone. Nor was I able to book online. He also said 'you won't get into the Paddo lounge with a Eurailpass'.

So I proved him wrong by gaining admittance, seeing a friendly conductor and purchasing a vacant sleeping berth.

If these two treat native English speakers like this, not much imagination is required as to how badly they might treat those whose first language is an Asian or European one. But they know they've a job pretty much for life, and are unlikely to ever be sacked.

 

[bob007]

My general feeling is that the staff do their job almost exactly inline with what is expected by them by the bosses.

I can’t imagine the current level of service existing in the 60s-90s for example.

I only started taking trains in the mid 90s but I always recall friendly, plentiful and knowledgeable staff, up until about 2005. I’m too young to say “better times”…but, they were better times

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Conversely, at Glasgow Queen Street, a rude woman refused to reserve a seat on a train departing from Glasgow Central. She said words to the effect of 'they do that'.

Not defending this somewhat brusque response, but was this enquiry made at one of the Scotrail ticket windows, with the seat being reserved on an Avanti operated train?

 

[railfan99]

Not defending this somewhat brusque response, but was this enquiry made at one of the Scotrail ticket windows, with the seat being reserved on an Avanti operated train?

Yes. It's a UK-wide booking system is it not? The website operated by National Rail covers England/Scotland/Wales in one go, as in using a journey planner.

 

[XAM2175]

Not defending this somewhat brusque response, but was this enquiry made at one of the Scotrail ticket windows, with the seat being reserved on an Avanti operated train?

Yes. It's a UK-wide booking system is it not? The website operated by National Rail covers England/Scotland/Wales in one go, as in using a journey planner.

At Queen Street they should have done it, as it's entirely ScotRail there.

At Central itself, while the the reservation system covers all of Great Britain (plus a few extra bits, but not the whole UK), for contractual reasons the ScotRail booking office handles ticketing to destinations within Scotland, while the separate Avanti booking office handles ticketing on services to England. It's a hangover from the British Rail days where the travel centres were InterCity's domain.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I had good service at ticket offices but I've also had some awful experiences. The old LNER Stevenage Travel Centre was hard to beat, such a shame it closed last year.

Most staff are excellent but where staff are not as good as they should be it's generally because the training isn't up to scratch and needs improving.

Yes! I’ve also had great customer service from the LNER staff at Stevenage. Very much by contrast is LNER’s ticket office at King’s Cross, where I struggle very much to find A) someone with basic manners and B) someone who understands the tickets I’m purchasing.

The OFAH Uncle Albert-esque old gent at King’s Cross I’ve found to be rather tiresome on a number of occasions.

A male booking clerk at London Paddington was even wose, telling me off for trying to reserve a berth on the 'Night Riviera' on the night of travel. I tried to explain I'd not been in the UK long, and how GWR declines to accept foreign issued credit cards as payment over the phone. Nor was I able to book online. He also said 'you won't get into the Paddo lounge with a Eurailpass'.

I’ve also encountered appalling customer service from both the GWR ticket office and gateline at Paddington. Ditto Liverpool St and Euston.

 

[pethadine82]

There was a really helpful chap in Peterborough who knew of the easements on the ECML and one time the system was down he wrote me a ticket by hand. It had the national rail logo. I've never seen that. When my ticket got checked the guard didn't seem phased by it.

 

[Dore & Totley]

I rarely use ticket offices these days, but my last visit at Elstree & Borehamwood the clerk was really helpful, my kids didn't have Zip Oyster cards (now they do) and I was trying to sort travelcards until the clerk told me the kids only needed returns to West Hampstead. Saved me a good sum.

 

[BurtonM]

I’ll give a real world example :- Stalybridge. A customer arrives at at the counter and asks for a day return to Huddersfield. The clerk says you can buy cheaper on line by splitting you tickets. So that’s what the customer did. Stalybridge 0 : Trainline 1
Now, no doubt TPE ( who operate Stalybridge ) are looking at tickets sales and revenue and looking at saving money !

In the above example, it’s no cheaper to buy online and the clerk could have spent 10-15 minutes researching options so they knew where the splits would work.

Imagine a Lloyds bank in Stalybridge where the staff point out that customers’ who arrive at the counter to use the internet or cash machine. I don’t think that they would last very long.

The staff at Stalybridge haven't changed in a very, very long time - I can recall one member of staff that's been there since the old car park and station building were still there, and the Quickfare machine. I've never found them to be particularly pleasant or helpful, they're usually outwardly pretty miserable - probably as most people just want 'return to Manchester' and pointing to the right platform. If you want that, it's fine, pay, and they'll throw it at you under the glass. But anything else, especially collections, seem to take forever and hold up the queue, so I just use trainline now. I used to use the TVM but it's been pitifully unreliable since they got rid of the Fasticket.
I once went in and asked specifically for SYB to Carlisle via Leeds (to use the S&C), and I was 'helpfully' offered the routing guide fare via Lancaster as it was quicker and a single ticket - wasn't what I'd asked for, though... I had to tell them no, that's the way I want to go.
I've also had the ticket office staff observe I've been travelling with a non-folding bicycle and start parroting TPEs incredibly awkward cycle reservation policy at me - all well and good, but I take the Northern trains from Stalybridge generally for flexibility and convenience reasons - it's just too hard to book a cycle reservation on TPE, and limits my ability to travel ad-hoc.

Further to that, I used to use the train to get to college using a TfGM Scholar's Concessionary Permit which allows concessionary/child fares to and from a place of study for 16-18 year olds - however only on single bus fares and single/day return train tickets. At the time TfGM didn't explain this very well in any documentation simply stating it entitled you to child fare. A lot of transport operators had no idea what it was (something I successfully took up with Stagecoach after the pass was constantly either mistaken for something else and free passage given, or refused and made to pay full fare on buses). Rail TVMs didn't offer tickets with the right code for the permit, and auxiliary staff with portable ticket machines just issued child tickets to me. I was also able to get these staff and the TVMs to sell me child season tickets, which in conjunction with the scholar's permit were consistently accepted by all revenue staff I encountered (this transpired to be a general lack of awareness of the scholar's permit). The wording of the terms on the pass was poor, and did not in fact permit the purchase of season tickets, only singles and day returns: I found this out when I asked the ticket office for a season one morning, and the staff proceeded to argue with me quite aggressively instead of just informing me of the mistake which I didn't even know I was making. They also insisted that I only queue for the ticket office and not use the TVM or auxiliary staff with a 'child' ticket, I had to get a ticket with the right code that only they could issue - the problem is the queue was that long that I'd miss trains while I was waiting thanks to their lack of efficiency, and/or random people showing up with collection codes. I ended up buying full price Stagecoach Megariders and taking the bus as it worked out cheaper.
I've never found them to be helpful or efficient.
One member of staff who had the foresight to fit a private numberplate with their name in it to their car, also had a sticker on said car reading 'Boobies make me happy', with the double o resemblinng a pair of naked breasts. Think what you will, it didn't make me feel good about interacting with him.
As an aside, Stalybridge used to have a branch of Lloyds.
It closed a couple of years ago.

 

[Meerkat]

I find the solo offices are usually ok to friendly, but in the bigger office selling me a ticket is an annoying distraction from conversation with their colleagues, which they often continue during the transaction.

 

[trainophile]

I've had some fun and friendly exchanges with Merseyrail ticket office staff now that they can print off ToD tickets. They are still learning the ropes, and in the main seem to be very good humoured about this new aspect of their role.

If their ticket offices were to close presumably we'd be back to square one regarding ToD, or there would have to be machines installed at most or all Merseyrail stations, which would cost a fair bit I imagine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TVMs are cheaper to run than booking offices. Capital outlay but for long term savings.

Also e-tickets should be accepted.

 

[zwk500]

TVMs are cheaper to run than booking offices. Capital outlay but for long term savings.

Also e-tickets should be accepted.

Indeed. There's plenty of local commuter stations where a TVM is all that's really needed, and e-tickets should be enforced by the relevant bodies (ORR, DfT, RDG?) to be universal across the network.

 

[43066]

TVMs are cheaper to run than booking offices. Capital outlay but for long term savings.

Also e-tickets should be accepted.

Are they not accepted on Merseyrail at all? That seems completely ludicrous (I seem to remember we discussed this point before).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they not accepted on Merseyrail at all? That seems completely ludicrous (I seem to remember we discussed this point before).

Nope, and it's ludicrous.

 

[43066]

Nope, and it's ludicrous.

That does seem bonkers.

On the other hand they are apparently ranked in the top fifty companies nationwide for customer service, so (e tickets aside) they must be doing something right!

Merseyrail customer service ranked among best in the UK

Merseyrail has the best customer service levels in the UK rail network, a new survey by the Institute of Customer Service (ICS) has declared.

www.merseyrail.org

The January 2023 UK Customer Satisfaction Index (UKCSI) is a national benchmark of customer satisfaction covering 281 organisations or organisation types across 13 sectors. The UKCSI score is based on how customers rate organisations across 26 measures and is based on 45,000 survey responses.

The Institute’s purpose is to enable organisations to achieve tangible business benefits through excellent customer service aligned to their business goals.

The index placed Merseyrail in the overall top 50 of companies in the UK, alongside brands such as Waitrose, John Lewis, Marks & Spencer, and Apple.

Suzanne Grant, Commercial Director of Merseyrail said: “Merseyrail is delighted to be named as the best UK rail company for customer service, and second-best in our sector of transport.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

Wilmslow is fine because they give me what I ask for and, if they don't recognise what I'm asking for, engage with interest.

apart from the one who is constantly texting !!

 

[TUC]

The casual disinterest of theoretically privatized staff now squarely in a customer service roles, was certainly a big factor in me deciding to bite the bullet and figure out the early ticket machines back when chip and pin was new, and latterly Trainline.com

What has staff being in the private sector got to do with their approach to their work? Every staff member in every shop is in the private sector and some will be much more helpful than others.

 

[island]

That does seem bonkers.

On the other hand they are apparently ranked in the top fifty companies nationwide for customer service, so (e tickets aside) they must be doing something right!

Merseyrail customer service ranked among best in the UK

Merseyrail has the best customer service levels in the UK rail network, a new survey by the Institute of Customer Service (ICS) has declared.

www.merseyrail.org

Probably because the stations are staffed all day

 

[6Gman]

I used one, once!

Literally. One. Once. To pay some ground rent about 15 years ago, to a freeholder that wouldn’t accept any other form of payment. They must be close to being phased out, surely!?

More topically, I can’t imagine railway booking offices still accept them?

There are certain organisations that - legally - have little option other than to use cheques.

 

[TUC]

There are certain organisations that - legally - have little option other than to use cheques.

Such as?

 

[MikeWM]

Cambridge ticket office staff have been uniformly excellent for decades, in my experience. They don't bat an eyelid when asked for an obscure Rover, or a season ticket between two quasi-random places (such as Lichfield Trent Valley and Lichfield City, as I currently have They've happily exchanged tickets without penalty when I've bought the wrong one at a TVM. They've refunded tickets when I've needed to buy a ticket unavailable in any other way than from a ticket office (eg. an Anglia Plus) when Ely ticket office is 'unexpectedly' closed (as it is about 50% of the time nowadays). They're always both efficient and friendly.

Whoever is responsible for their training has done a very good job indeed.

 

[6Gman]

Such as?

Parish councils.

Some small charities.

 

[TUC]

Parish councils.

Some small charities.

I think I'm right in saying they can set up digital transactions these days.