Network Rail Cab Radios

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Whistler40145, 20 Nov 2011.

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  1. Whistler40145

    Whistler40145 Established Member

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    What is the consensus of Network Rail to compulsory introduce new Cab to Shore radio equipment on all registered mainline locomotives?

    Also, how will this hit locos e.g. 47580, 40145, 55022 etc versus locos owned by WCRC, Class 50 Alliance locos etc?
     
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  3. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    Wasn't RAIL Magazine getting all dramatic about this? Well, i don't much about the ins & outs of Technology, but the current system's getting a bit old, isn't it, doesn't it basically date back to the 80's? Is this the same as that thing they've brought in on the Cambrian line, or is that something different?
     
  4. 507 001

    507 001 Established Member

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    It's not CSR, Its GSM-R.
    It shouldn't be too bad for WCRC, apparently they can claim the cost of installing it from the DFT.
    I suppose it all depends on just how expensive GSM-R equipment is and how many locomotives you own that will dictate what happens. I think it may be fair to say that railtour prices will go up for a year or so?

    Rail did get very dramatic. It was a bit Daily Mail.
    GSM-R is part of/works with ERTMS/ETCS which is installed on the Cambrian.
     
  5. Whistler40145

    Whistler40145 Established Member

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    Well we all know how RAIL is quite political over matters of our Railways!

    So are we saying that the situation isn't so serious & that if Preservationists with locos on the mainline will decide whether or not it is financially viable to fit the new equipment?
     
  6. ChrisCooper

    ChrisCooper Established Member

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    Presumably radio equipment is easy to make portable, which would mean that one bit of equipment would be usable in many cabs. AFAIK they already have portable ETCS equipment to allow it to be fitted to cabs as needed. It's different to OTMR and TPWS which needs equipment for each loco or unit and because they are built in require a lot of additional work to fit.
     
  7. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    GSM-R is effectively just a variation on a mobile phone, so I'd expect a portable version to become available...

    It does need to have access to the emergency stop systems though.
     
  8. Railsigns

    Railsigns Established Member

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    They don't. The ETCS equipment that goes on-board the train is about the size of a tall filing cabinet.
     
  9. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    They don't have the choice. NRN is being abolished and all mainline going locos/units are required to have radios. No radio, no going mainline. GSM-R will be the main method of communication between Drivers and Signallers.

    There is a portable version of NRN radio sets so I imagine a GSM-R set will be available too.

    As far as I'm aware national implementation means Network Rail/leasing companies meet some of the cost as they did with OTDR & TPWS.
     
    Last edited: 20 Nov 2011
  10. rf_ioliver

    rf_ioliver Member

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    GSM-R is a radio protocol and not a "phone" per se. It contains a whole bunch of features that don't or can't exist in GSM for precisely these applications. Wikipedia has a very good article on GSM-R and, yes, there are real handsets that support GSM-R.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM-R

    I had the pleasure many years ago of actually working with the GSM-R protocol and its implementation (or actually verification)...cool stuff,

    t.

    Ian
     
  11. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    It's not through choice either, the NRN frequencies expire next year and have already been sold by the European Broadcasting authority (or some such group) to Dutch TV. Any NRN equipped train within a couple of hundred miles of Holland would have had interference. Although certain Dutch broadcasting may have been interesting!
     
  12. TDK

    TDK Established Member

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    CSR = Cab Secure Radio not Cab to Shore Radio, CSR wasn't mentioned. GSM-R is in fact a cab to shore radio if you want to be accurate
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I am not certain but I think it is a compulsary measure to have GSM-R radios fitted to all traction that will be working over GSM-R fitted areas on NR infrastructure and this is almost the whole of the country whem implimented.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I think the IVRS handsets are also GSM-R compatible to a certain degree
     
  13. Railsigns

    Railsigns Established Member

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    IVRS is a GSM-R based voice radio system; it's GSM-R without all the fancy features.
     
  14. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    I only said it was based on a mobile phone as an over simplification for those who don't know about communication systems...

    Personally I'd expect there to be some method of fitting all locomotives as GSM-R Ready by linking in with the TWPS for the emergency stop facility and piggy backing in smilar ways, and just have the cables hang out, but it depends on how much extra the actual unit would cost compared to all these fitting costs.

    Also depends on how intergrated GSM-R Needs to be into the unit, if it doesn't need to work as a 'red button slave' then a handheld based unit should suffice. But if it's used for signalling and ERTMS, then it needs to be a lot more.
     
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