Network Rail draws up list of ‘no regret’ electrification schemes - New Civil Engineer

[InTheEastMids]

New Civil Engineer Magazine published this article a couple of days ago, which I haven't seen mentioned in other threads.

Network Rail bosses are drawing up a list of “no regret” schemes to accelerate the electrification of the UK’s rail network.
The list will be submitted to the Treasury and the Department for Transport (DfT) ahead of the publication of the government’s Transport Decarbonisation Plan.
...
He [Andrew Haines] added: “We have a lot of schemes that are ready to go, and even after Covid they still have very, very good business cases.”

In particular Haines pointed out that work on the Transpennine Route Upgrade is “waiting and ready to go”.

Link (£): Network Rail draws up list of ‘no regret’ electrification schemes - New Civil Engineer

There's no further discussion of specific projects, although perhaps what's interesting is that TP gets a mention ahead of previously cancelled works on MML or GWML.

 

[59CosG95]

New Civil Engineer Magazine published this article a couple of days ago, which I haven't seen mentioned in other threads.

Network Rail bosses are drawing up a list of “no regret” schemes to accelerate the electrification of the UK’s rail network.
The list will be submitted to the Treasury and the Department for Transport (DfT) ahead of the publication of the government’s Transport Decarbonisation Plan.
...
He [Andrew Haines] added: “We have a lot of schemes that are ready to go, and even after Covid they still have very, very good business cases.”

In particular Haines pointed out that work on the Transpennine Route Upgrade is “waiting and ready to go”.

Link (£): Network Rail draws up list of ‘no regret’ electrification schemes - New Civil Engineer

There's no further discussion of specific projects, although perhaps what's interesting is that TP gets a mention ahead of previously cancelled works on MML or GWML.

I'd definitely expect TRU, MML & GWML to all feature in some capacity or other. Perhaps Dudding Hill/Acton Poplar Curve and London Gateway for good measure? Those last two would certainly make the prospect of more electrically-hauled freight (and therefore investment in electric locomotives old and new) more palatable to the FOCs and their ROSCOs.
Both the GWML & the MML are basically electrically 'floating' from the rest of the UK's network; the link between the GOBLIN & MML (Carlton Rd Jn - Junction Rd Jn) was descoped from either the GOBLIN or MML programmes (can't remember which) and the link between the MML & GWML (Dudding Hill & Poplar Curve) was descoped from GWEP. (Subterranean links such as Thameslink & Crossrail don't count)

 

[HSTEd]

Very good business cases if NR have suddenly developed the ability to deliver projects on budget.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Very good business cases if NR have suddenly developed the ability to deliver projects on budget.

Network Rail regularly delivers projects on budget. It has the ability, even with electrification (see Scotland) , doing it everytime is the problem!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wiring the MML to Sheffield still doesn't connect it to the rest of the national network either.
It needs to reach Doncaster and/or Moorthorpe for that, so that TOCs other than EMR can decarbonise their services.
I should think restarting GWML work would need a redesign of the Series 1 OHL to reduce the cost.
None of the remaining trackage will be used at more than 100mph (maybe a bit at 125mph up to Oxford), certainly not 140mph.
I'm aware many of the piles are already in at the old spec.

 

[cle]

Surely finishing Oxford, Bristol and maybe picking up Swansea (with line speed improvements along there) is a no-brainer.

Similarly, Market Harborough to Nottingham and to Doncaster (throw in Derby to Birmingham) give a lot more options.

Plenty up north - the obvious TP route to Hull, but then Windermere, maybe Barrow... Halton and Crewe to Chester, and Chester back to WBQ.

 

[Mollman]

I think I read somewhere that London Gateway, Felxistowe branch and the NLL/GWML link were on the list

 

[CW2]

Birmingham still has a significant network of well-used DMU-worked routes, which should all be candidates:
Birmingham - Kidderminster
Birmingham - Stratford upon Avon
Birmingham - Leamington Spa (and links to Stratford) - and onward to Banbury / Oxford / Didcot
Leamington Spa - Coventry - Nuneaton
Birmingham - Nuneaton - Leicester
Birmingham - Derby
Wolverhampton - Shrewsbury

It would be interesting to know whether the Welsh politicians take a similar or different tack to their English counterparts, as electrification Crewe to Chester might result in Pendolino (and in future HS2) services to Chester, all change for rattly DMU for stations to Holyhead etc. Likewise if you have electrified routes Chester to Crewe, Liverpool and Manchester, through-running of DMUs to continue to provide a service to North Wales without changing looks unlikely to me.

 

[Ken H]

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

 

[Minstral25]

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

Over the years we can replace Gas with renewables as we have with Coal now and then the electricity will be decarbonised. Doing electrification allows utilisation of purely clean electric as soon as it is available.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

There are more reasons not to want DMUs than that, of course - not least pollution at the point of use in cities in particular. Windermere of course isn't a city, but not wiring it (and Barrow) causes a DMU to operate under the wires all the way to Ringway.

 

[HSTEd]

Windermere of course isn't a city, but not wiring it (and Barrow) causes a DMU to operate under the wires all the way to Ringway.

No, a refusal to order new electrodiesel rolling stock causes that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, a refusal to order new electrodiesel rolling stock causes that.

Fair. But nonetheless, Windermere is a cheap, easy win, and I can't see Barrow being that hard either (unless there are low bridges I suppose, but I'm fairly sure the Furness Railway generally preferred subways).

 

[tbtc]

Why does this feel like a bit of a sop, in the way that the Government regularly re-announce that they'd like to do something about "Beeching" cuts at some unspecified point in the medium term (and will allow different regions to battle each therefor the necessary funds)?

We all know that there's a backlog of CP5 stuff that wasn't done (cancelled, deferred, whatever) - but I guess there's no harm in Network Rail getting some positive headlines at a relatively quiet time of the year, showing their willing to invest in things that they previously promised to do. Some people will get their crayons out, or start dusting down their long wish lists, discussing the merits of one project against another, that kind of thing. Even if that includes fanciful stuff like mentioning wires to Barrow!

But it just feels like a way of keeping "younger" people on board (who favour greener projects, like electrification) in the way that regular headlines get generated to keep "older" people on board (along the lines of promising some cosy nostalgia about 1960s branch lines).

Will believe it when I see it (and, when I say "it", I mean those wires that were meant to be extended to Sheffield a few years ago)

 

[HSTEd]

Fair. But nonetheless, Windermere is a cheap, easy win, and I can't see Barrow being that hard either (unless there are low bridges I suppose, but I'm fairly sure the Furness Railway generally preferred subways).

I do wonder if anyone has done any calculation about what replacing all diesel trains with electrodiesels would do to fuel oil consumption on the railway.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

Your point of order is sadly out of order.

Moving from diesel traction to electric traction, even with 100% gas generated electricity will offer significant carbon savings though the increased energy density inherent to natural gas, which means you get more energy for each kg of CO2 produced, when comparing it to diesel internal combusion.

The switch to electric traction also offers energy savings through the reduced mass of the rolling stock which means you have less mass to accelerate, and through regenerative braking which allows the capture of energy otherwise lost through the braking systems typically found with other traction types (friction, rheostatic etc).

We're fortunate, on an evening like tonight, only 27% of their energy consumption comes from gas generated electricity.

 

[TheSel]

I note that the report states:

... Haines pointed out that work on the Transpennine Route Upgrade is “waiting and ready to go”.

Is this the same as an oven-ready Brexit?

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

It would be interesting to know whether the Welsh politicians take a similar or different tack to their English counterparts, as electrification Crewe to Chester might result in Pendolino (and in future HS2) services to Chester, all change for rattly DMU for stations to Holyhead etc. Likewise if you have electrified routes Chester to Crewe, Liverpool and Manchester, through-running of DMUs to continue to provide a service to North Wales without changing looks unlikely to me.

It's not really up to Welsh politicians. Unlike in Scotland and NI, rail isn't fully devolved in Wales. Decisions like electrifying the North Wales Main Line or the GWML to Swansea are matters for NR and the UK Governement.

The partial elecrification of the Valley Lines is a Welsh Government / TfW project but the ownership of the infrastructure was transferred to the Welsh Government earlier this year to enable it to happen.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I note that the report states:
... Haines pointed out that work on the Transpennine Route Upgrade is “waiting and ready to go”.
Is this the same as an oven-ready Brexit?

I thought the Leeds-Huddersfield TPU work was waiting for a public enquiry to report on the land-take?
Maybe the Victoria-Stalybridge work is shovel ready, having been in that state when the original wiring project was cut back first to Miles Platting and then Brownlow St.

Anyway we will all "prosper mightily" however it turns out...

 

[Domh245]

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

Yes and no - whilst it's true that the grid isn't current carbon free, each unit of electricity the railway consumes is backed by nuclear, so it is (by the magic of accounting) near enough zero carbon. 4,186 million kWh consumed by the railway in 2019/20, out of a total 154TWh generated by nuclear (2%)

As an interesting aside, if you assumed that the rail electricity consumption was all generated using forecourt biodiesel, even taking the grid average CO2e/kWh represents a 20% saving including 'well to tank' emissions for diesel and transmission losses for electricity - although clearly it's a much higher saving because of the benefits Philip Phlopp posted. Accounting 'properly' and doing it for just nuclear emissions would result in a total of 16,911t CO2e for electrified rail in 2019/20 (about 1.6% of the emissions calculated taking the grid average).

Also remember that on a pedantic note, decarbonisation doesn't mean chasing zero emissions (though that is preferable, and required by 2050) - only reducing carbon emissions. String up wires and get an immediate slight benefit which then gets closer and closer to net zero as the grid decarbonises itself

 

[mcmad]

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

You are Chris Grayling and I claim my five pounds.

 

[mbonwick]

I can't see Barrow being that hard either (unless there are low bridges I suppose, but I'm fairly sure the Furness Railway generally preferred subways).

There are quite a few bridges that spring to mind that would probably require raising, plus a number of rock cuttings that would (probably) be quite tight to squeeze masts into.
Can't see residents of Kents Bank or Grange-Over-Sands, or Arnside for that matter being too happy with the masts spoiling the view along the promenade.

 

[Geeves]

Something that isnt often mentioned in the great race to decarbonise is that the majority of the products from the refining process are still going to be needed for many years (forever for some), such as Asphalt and oil based lubricants. One issue will be the millions of gallons of now useless petrol and diesel and what will be done with it all? In the olden days they dumped it straight into the sea! Maybe the geniuses leading the great race might want to look at a way to get rid of this now useless and worthless fuel oil. I dont know maybe a power station powered by Petrol would help.

The other problem is in 25 years all that renewable equipment is going to need to be replaced at great expense especially all those wind farms out at sea.

Anyways I digress, good news on the overheads going up none the less.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Something that isnt often mentioned in the great race to decarbonise is that the majority of the products from the refining process are still going to be needed for many years (forever for some), such as Asphalt and oil based lubricants. One issue will be the millions of gallons of now useless petrol and diesel and what will be done with it all? In the olden days they dumped it straight into the sea! Maybe the geniuses leading the great race might want to look at a way to get rid of this now useless and worthless fuel oil. I dont know maybe a power station powered by Petrol would help.

The other problem is in 25 years all that renewable equipment is going to need to be replaced at great expense especially all those wind farms out at sea.

Anyways I digress, good news on the overheads going up none the less.

You can process petrol or diesel into other things like methanol so it can be used in industrial solvents.

 

[D365]

I note that the report states:

... Haines pointed out that work on the Transpennine Route Upgrade is “waiting and ready to go”.

Is this the same as an oven-ready Brexit?

In comparison to consultations and financing (read: legal stuff), the engineering side of TRU might as well be a walk in the park!

 

[alangla]

I do wonder if anyone has done any calculation about what replacing all diesel trains with electrodiesels would do to fuel oil consumption on the railway.

As long as the existing wiring can cope with the extra electric trains. See for example the northern ECML and the replacement of HSTs with Azumas plus the new Trans Pennine service.

 

[Bald Rick]

We're fortunate, on an evening like tonight, only 27% of their energy consumption comes from gas generated electricity.

16% now. With some wind farms off line as there’s too much being produced.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can't see residents of Kents Bank or Grange-Over-Sands, or Arnside for that matter being too happy with the masts spoiling the view along the promenade.

If they're typical ugly railway ones, you're probably right. That said, you can do attractive OHLE masts, e.g. cast iron "tram style" and wood.

I guess that wouldn't fit into the "no regret" category, though, as it would involve developing something the UK doesn't presently have.

 

[HSTEd]

As long as the existing wiring can cope with the extra electric trains. See for example the northern ECML and the replacement of HSTs with Azumas plus the new Trans Pennine service.

My understanding is that is more to do with the very high power draw of modern high performance units than the number of services per se.

If the HSTs had just been replaced with a magical new fleet of Class 91s I dontt hink the upgrades would have been anywhere near as extensive.

 

[Jozhua]

Very good business cases if NR have suddenly developed the ability to deliver projects on budget.

One of the problems is that it is hard to deliver something on budget without a consistent funding source.

The Bolton electrification went so poorly, partially due to the need to re-train and re-start supply chains. There's a time and monetary cost to dusting off the rust and oiling the chains...

Plus, some projects simply throw up complications. Bolton had unstable ground conditions and the like to contend with. I'm sure this isn't unique to the industry and that both public/private sector has to deal with it. Infrastructure is also perticularly unique in coverage of long distances, so you're going to encounter variations in conditions.

I'm sure over a number of electrification schemes, the easy ones will balance out the tricky ones.

Point of order
electrifying is not decarbonising. To make electrification carbon free you have to decarbonise electricity generation. Right now we are dependant on gas.

Your point of order is sadly out of order.

Moving from diesel traction to electric traction, even with 100% gas generated electricity will offer significant carbon savings though the increased energy density inherent to natural gas, which means you get more energy for each kg of CO2 produced, when comparing it to diesel internal combusion.

The switch to electric traction also offers energy savings through the reduced mass of the rolling stock which means you have less mass to accelerate, and through regenerative braking which allows the capture of energy otherwise lost through the braking systems typically found with other traction types (friction, rheostatic etc).

We're fortunate, on an evening like tonight, only 27% of their energy consumption comes from gas generated electricity.

Well I guess that saves me saying it lol...

Plus, the things that save energy improve service performance. Better acceleration, less noise/pollution for neighbours, less maintenance. Oh and also, a better passenger experience!

Plus, we tend to have surplus old EMUs, which can't be said for DMUs, something useful in tackling rolling stock shortages.

You can process petrol or diesel into other things like methanol so it can be used in industrial solvents.

It is called cracking I believe? If GCSE chemistry holds up

*Correction, cracking involves breaking up longer chain hydrocarbons into smaller ones. Mostly because there are too many of the long chain, and they need to convert some into petrol/diesel to keep up with demand.

Is to say, the hydrocarbons that are dug out the ground aren't fixed at a given length. There are chemical processes to change the composition, depending on where demand lies. Chiefly these days, fuel.