Network Rail Open Data

[Zoe]

At about 1 AM this morning messages at least from TD_WTV_SIG_AREA were missing but this seems to have resolved now.

 

[Amy]

Excuse me but how ignorant!

How vulgar but you’re excused.

 

[Zoe]

Is there any reason why class 5 (ECS) was not made available in the TD feeds? If a train terminates in a platform and then has to run ECS to a siding, no messages will be sent and so any display would show the train where it terminated until another train arrives in the same platform. Class 5 is available in the Train Movements feeds.
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There seems to be a near blackout on the TD feed from about 01:00 and 03:40 each morning. A few messages do get through but a lot is missing. It has done this at the same time every day since I first noticed the TD feeds were reporting all messages for most of the day.

 

[Poggs]

Is there any reason why class 5 (ECS) was not made available in the TD feeds? If a train terminates in a platform and then has to run ECS to a siding, no messages will be sent and so any display would show the train where it terminated until another train arrives in the same platform. Class 5 is available in the Train Movements feeds.

At a guess, the TD feed might expose freight ECS movements - I gather there's some some sensitivity over freight. I don't know of any Class 5 freight moves though. I'll ask if we can have Class 0, 3 and 5 in the feed next week.

There seems to be a near blackout on the TD feed about 01:00 and 03:40 each morning. A few messages do get through but a lot is missing.

Sounds like it's some kind of overnight processing happening somewhere. Does it affect the TRUST feed too?

 

[Zoe]

At a guess, the TD feed might expose freight ECS movements - I gather there's some some sensitivity over freight. I don't know of any Class 5 freight moves though.

Class 5 is available in the train movement feed though so if there was freight I would have thought there would have be a full blackout through all feeds.
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Sounds like it's some kind of overnight processing happening somewhere. Does it affect the TRUST feed too?

I haven't been monitoring the Train Movement feed as closely but there does seem to be a lack of messages in that time.

 

[Poggs]

Class 5 is available in the train movement feed though so if there was freight I would have thought there would have be a full blackout through all feeds.

"It's complicated". The train movements feed comes from TRUST, which knows the operating company of each of the train. It's easy to remove freight from there - all moves are under a particular TOC ID. The TD feed only knows train reporting numbers, and there's a many-to-one relationship between a reporting number and a schedule and it's hugely difficult to correlate a reporting number to a schedule unless you hold a huge amount of state information on where the train started from, etc.

 

[The Planner]

I don't know of any Class 5 freight moves though

Don't think they exist, if a freight is running empty it still runs as a 4, 6, 7 or 8.

 

[D1009]

Empty coaching stock means what it says. A freight formed of coaching stock such as a mail train runs as class 1 or 3, and the stock to form it or after working it would be class 5.

 

[Zoe]

If the freight train runs as class 1 then there would need to be some filtering or it would be available in the TD feed. Not sure if mail trains are currently filtered or not.

 

[titic]

Hello All,

Thanks for all the information and especially the list of Berth Steps.

I've developed a feed listener with Python. It's working well during the day but stop every night at 1.00 AM. Do you know if there is a 'stop and go' of the service and how long it lasts?

thanks a lot.
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Oopps i didn't realize the answer was just few post above.
thank you !
so no message between 1 and 3.40...

 

[87015]

Don't think they exist, if a freight is running empty it still runs as a 4, 6, 7 or 8.

New Colas freight flow looks interesting - uses ex Motorail wagons and is in as a class 4 loaded, class 5 empties.

 

[Poggs]

Just a heads-up - I was at another meeting at NR's shiny building in Milton Keynes last week, and suggested NR look at some more things:

- S-Class data in the TD feed
- Releasing associated metadata (signalling output tables, where S-Class data is available for a TD area)
- Berth stepping tables
- Signalling diagrams (5-mile diagrams aren't that useful)
- Publishing the WON and Yellow Perils
- Class 0, 3 and 5 trains in the TD feed

Fingers crossed

 

[Sacro]

I wouldn't mind seeing 5 mile diagrams released though!

 

[jamesjefferies]

Just a heads-up - I was at another meeting at NR's shiny building in Milton Keynes last week, and suggested NR look at some more things:

- S-Class data in the TD feed
- Releasing associated metadata (signalling output tables, where S-Class data is available for a TD area)
- Berth stepping tables
- Signalling diagrams (5-mile diagrams aren't that useful)
- Publishing the WON and Yellow Perils
- Class 0, 3 and 5 trains in the TD feed

Fingers crossed

Excellent stuff, let's hope they listen and act

 

[robh]

I'm getting some strange behaviour with the VSTP feed at the moment. I have two computers, both running the same program I've written to listen on the feed with my account details the message only appeared to arrive on one of them.

I've tried them both on the TD feed and it all appears okay, the VSTP seems to be far less frequent but I think I could be missing messages. Is there any reason why one STOMP subscriber might have missed the message?

 

[Poggs]

First, check whether you are actually missing messages. Make sure both clients are permanently connected and using the same version of Stomp (1.0, I don't think the service support 1.1 but I could be wrong). Maybe get both bits of code outputting debugging information so you can track what's going on.

Are you only listening to the VSTP feed with this client? If so, are you behind a firewall or a router that does address translation (NAT or PAT)? (e.g. if you have a 10.x.x.x, 192.168.x.x or 172.[16-31].x.x address, you will certainly be) If so, the TCP connection your code is making may time out after a period of inactivity - enforced by the router/firewall doing address translation.

 

[robh]

Thanks, it does seem to be the TCP connection timing out, the client on one machine was also subscribed to "TD_ALL_SIG_AREA" which is a very active feed and also has "heartbeat" messages so it never goes quiet. The other machine was only subscribed to "VSTP_ALL" and only ever got the first few messages and then went quiet. I haven't determined why the connections are timing out, I am behind a NAT router here though.

 

[greatkingrat]

Surprised no-one has noticed this yet

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Surprised no-one has noticed this yet
http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps

Tinkering with the Czech Railways web site after a trip to Prague, I found they have a live train position app - on the right hand side of this page:
http://www.cd.cz/en/

You seem to have to manually refresh it to get updated positions, and the granularity seems a bit coarse, but at least you can track all the trains and home in on any type you want (inter-city, regional, local etc) or an individual train.
Nice map too, which also shows the location of network problems.

 

[Poggs]

Surprised no-one has noticed this yet

http://www.opentraintimes.com/maps

I launched it on 1st October, but I need a bit more time to sort out the server infrastructure before adding more maps. Oh, and of course I need to get hold of the maps in the first place.

In the next few months, I should have a diagram of Northampton - Daventry complete with signal aspects, routes set from signals, point positions and TRTS indicators.

 

[The Planner]

Looks a damn sight better than CCF

 

[krus_aragon]

I'm intrigued that the Pontypool and Blaenafon Railway is shown on this map (but other heritage railways in Wales that I looked for aren't). Is this intentional?

 

[Poggs]

It's using data from OpenStreetMap. I've tried to filter out all the non-Network Rail routes as much as I can, but there will be some inaccuracies.

Of course, I could just put all railways in, but then I'd have weird things in there like a miniature railway at Alton Towers.

 

[Zoe]

In the next few months, I should have a diagram of Northampton - Daventry complete with signal aspects, routes set from signals, point positions and TRTS indicators.

Is this data that you have specially been allowed access to rather than taken from the NR open data feeds?

 

[Poggs]

Is this data that you have specially been allowed access to rather than taken from the NR open data feeds?

It's data that I get through the original connectivity I have in to NR, with metadata available on a Network Rail portal which I've requested they open up too.

Or, to put it another way - it's data I hope will become open soon

 

[PatTurner]

Great thread.

I've been reading these posts to try and glean some information on the NR data feeds, and this has bean a really useful resource. So, thanks.

@Poggs, it might not be appropriate for what you're doing with OpenStreetMaps, but have you seen the Railway Network Inspire data yet?

Here's the WMS service:
http://data.gov.uk/data/map-preview...ewService?Request=GetCapabilities&Service=WMS

and the open data page on it:
http://data.gov.uk/dataset/railway-network-inspire

Perhaps this is what you're using anyway.

Pat

 

[Poggs]

@Poggs, it might not be appropriate for what you're doing with OpenStreetMaps, but have you seen the Railway Network Inspire data yet?

I discovered it a day or two ago - unfortunately it looks like it's just a tile server - I can't work out how to download the raw data

 

[PatTurner]

You can grab the data in a variety of formats. Here's a link for SVG:

http://inspire.esriuk.com/ArcGIS/se...11.58692,1120336.3502051&WIDTH=923&HEIGHT=888

I don't know too much about Map Servers, but I've heard OpenLayers can let you combine maps from different sources. Perhaps the inspire WMS can also format it how you want.

Mind you, your service looks pretty great anyway I was only mentioning this as another open source of data.

On another point, about the NR TD feed: Am I right in assuming that berth steps will only show movements from adjacent berths?

Pat

 

[GB]

Very nice work on the maps and other bits Poggs! Where are you with showing freight in the TD berths, has this been agreed yet or are the powers that be still working on it?

 

[Zoe]

Very nice work on the maps and other bits Poggs! Where are you with showing freight in the TD berths, has this been agreed yet or are the powers that be still working on it?

Freight is not included in the TD or Train Movement information provided by Network Rail. ECS movements are not available in the TD feed either although they are in the train movement feed.