Network Rail Recommends 80% of the network should be electrified by 2050

[Bald Rick]

2MW doesn't sound very much for the area of the full extension.

It’s roughly twice the size of Blackfriars, which is 1MW.

 

[AM9]

It’s roughly twice the size of Blackfriars, which is 1MW.

OK so that is useful but just not as much as I thought it might be.

 

[richieb1971]

If EWR doesn't get electrified and its a brand new stretch of railway I have no hope that this target will be reached.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If EWR doesn't get electrified and its a brand new stretch of railway I have no hope that this target will be reached.

Agreed - the government and DaFT are paying lip service to the decarbonization agenda. Their heart is not in it.

 

[CdBrux]

Agreed - the government and DaFT are paying lip service to the decarbonization agenda. Their heart is not in it.

If it got electrified how many electric trains, or even bi-modes would run down it from day 1? And if the answer is low how much carbon could have been saved by using those resources elsewhere?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If it got electrified how many electric trains, or even bi-modes would run down it from day 1? And if the answer is low how much carbon could have been saved by using those resources elsewhere?

Not in doubt but a lot of the bitching is "Electrification is Disruptive". A large part of this project will be where there is no railway - so surely it makes sense to electrify while under construction - that way no disruption?

 

[Energy]

Switzerland's railway is entirely electrified, admittedly it is a lot smaller but shouldn't we be aiming for that high instead of 'this looks a tiny bit worse but my view is more important than the environment' which currently seems to be the thing.

If it got electrified how many electric trains, or even bi-modes would run down it from day 1? And if the answer is low how much carbon could have been saved by using those resources elsewhere?

A lot more goes into electrification then just putting the wires up and switching it on, from day 1 if it is a new build line then all services would probably be electric, everyone who is trained for the line would also have been trained for the electric stock and anyway lots of testing to make sure the OHLE is fine happens so electric trains will have been running before day 1 of passenger operation. Also as said by someone else in this thread, burning fossil fuels produces far more emissions than the construction work of electrification, justifying electrification on a carbon basis on most lines, especially busier lines like EWR.

 

[Mollman]

If it got electrified how many electric trains, or even bi-modes would run down it from day 1? And if the answer is low how much carbon could have been saved by using those resources elsewhere?

EWR rolling stock has yet to be confirmed but considering that there will be no spare DMUs in the near future unless you want to operate stopping trains with Voyagers / Meridians or use 30+ year old Sprinters. This means they will have to order new, so unless they order bi-modes which can be converted to full electric in the longer term then they are locking in diesel operation for 20+ years.

 

[corfield]

Given EWR won’t be a cohesive franchise is it not more likely the various operators will use DMUs similar to their existing fleets with reallocations, bolt ons and cascades?

 

[Brissle Girl]

EWR rolling stock has yet to be confirmed but considering that there will be no spare DMUs in the near future unless you want to operate stopping trains with Voyagers / Meridians or use 30+ year old Sprinters. This means they will have to order new, so unless they order bi-modes which can be converted to full electric in the longer term then they are locking in diesel operation for 20+ years.

I suspect the voyager/meridian cascade will release Cl170s somewhere along the cascade (eg from Cardiff to Nottingham).

 

[higthomas]

EWR rolling stock has yet to be confirmed but considering that there will be no spare DMUs in the near future unless you want to operate stopping trains with Voyagers / Meridians or use 30+ year old Sprinters. This means they will have to order new, so unless they order bi-modes which can be converted to full electric in the longer term then they are locking in diesel operation for 20+ years.

They've put out a tender for a short term set of stock, sounding like some sort of old second hand stock may be what gets used initiqlly.

EWR targets short-term fleet ahead of possible electrification

East West Railway Company issues tender for interim fleet as Government reconsiders electrifying the route

www.railmagazine.com

Electrification could yet be on the agenda for East West Rail, after Government ministers confirmed that the decision not to wire the reopened railway could be reversed.

The announcement was made in the same week as the EWR Consortium revealed it was looking to lease second-hand diesel multiple units, in order to start running trains between Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bedford and Aylesbury

 

[py_megapixel]

They've put out a tender for a short term set of stock, sounding like some sort of old second hand stock may be what gets used initiqlly.

EWR targets short-term fleet ahead of possible electrification

East West Railway Company issues tender for interim fleet as Government reconsiders electrifying the route

www.railmagazine.com

Good. I think the idea of building an unelectrified railway which connects with an electrified one anywhere (in this case at Milton Keynes) is absolutely ludicrous at this point.

 

[Mikey C]

They've put out a tender for a short term set of stock, sounding like some sort of old second hand stock may be what gets used initiqlly.

EWR targets short-term fleet ahead of possible electrification

East West Railway Company issues tender for interim fleet as Government reconsiders electrifying the route

www.railmagazine.com

I imagine bimodes in the short/medium term would be more useful than pure electrics, seeing that the wires of an electrified EWR would run out at Aylesbury and Oxford (currently)

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I imagine bimodes in the short/medium term would be more useful than pure electrics, seeing that the wires of an electrified EWR would run out at Aylesbury and Oxford (currently)

Network Rail has proposed electrifying the other Diesel routes on the GWR main line and The Chiltern Main Line so I would imagine EWR would form part of a larger plan to run wires from Reading to Bedford/MKC and Cambridge.

 

[Mikey C]

Network Rail has proposed electrifying the other Diesel routes on the GWR main line and The Chiltern Main Line so I would imagine EWR would form part of a larger plan to run wires from Reading to Bedford/MKC and Cambridge.

While I 100% agree that those other lines should be electrified, the whole scheme including them and EWR is suddenly a major project, much bigger than EWR on its own

 

[Brissle Girl]

We are digressing somewhat, but I would say that whilst it is regrettable that it is not being electrified from the outset, for a project that has been kicking around for a quarter of a century (I have a pamphlet from consultants about the project dated Jan 1996), I am just glad that at long last work is getting under way, at least west of Bletchley.

 

[anthony263]

Network Rail has proposed electrifying the other Diesel routes on the GWR main line and The Chiltern Main Line so I would imagine EWR would form part of a larger plan to run wires from Reading to Bedford/MKC and Cambridge.

What over routes on the gwml ?

 

[Mollman]

They've put out a tender for a short term set of stock, sounding like some sort of old second hand stock may be what gets used initiqlly.

EWR targets short-term fleet ahead of possible electrification

East West Railway Company issues tender for interim fleet as Government reconsiders electrifying the route

www.railmagazine.com

Except for the important line of (with my emphasis):

The ITT requires a fleet of 12 or 14 three-car units with European Train Control System Level 2 and Driver Controlled Operation capability.

Do we know of any DMUs with that, beyond what the TOCs are receiving now? I would have thought the 170s and 175s are too old to have that without a major refit?

 

[Domh245]

Except for the important line of (with my emphasis):


Do we know of any DMUs with that, beyond what the TOCs are receiving now? I would have thought the 170s and 175s are too old to have that without a major refit?

The only fleets actually fitted with ETCS (rather than provision for it, as most currently delivered fleets are) are 700s, 345s, and the TfW 158s on the Cambrian line!

 

[Energy]

Except for the important line of (with my emphasis):


Do we know of any DMUs with that, beyond what the TOCs are receiving now? I would have thought the 170s and 175s are too old to have that without a major refit?

Driver Controlled Operation won't be too hard to find, ETCS L2 will be. Wasn't it quite hard to fit on the Cambrian 158s?

 

[Energy]

The only fleets actually fitted with ETCS (rather than provision for it, as most currently delivered fleets are) are 700s, 345s, and the TfW 158s on the Cambrian line!

Many have the ability for it to be easily fitted.

 

[higthomas]

Except for the important line of (with my emphasis):


Do we know of any DMUs with that, beyond what the TOCs are receiving now? I would have thought the 170s and 175s are too old to have that without a major refit?

The only fleets actually fitted with ETCS (rather than provision for it, as most currently delivered fleets are) are 700s, 345s, and the TfW 158s on the Cambrian line!

Driver Controlled Operation won't be too hard to find, ETCS L2 will be. Wasn't it quite hard to fit on the Cambrian 158s?

Given the Cambrian 158s are coming off lease soon, they sound like the perfect solution then.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

What over routes on the gwml ?

- Swansea to Cardiff
- Bristol Parkway to Penzance and Plymouth
-Swindon to Bristol via Bath
-Reading to Banbury via Oxford

All the diesel routes that intercity main line services on GWR use.

 

[swt_passenger]

Given EWR won’t be a cohesive franchise is it not more likely the various operators will use DMUs similar to their existing fleets with reallocations, bolt ons and cascades?

I thought the last word from DfT was that they did now want it to be a separate franchise, which was part of the reason for removing through trains across Aylesbury?

I’d always thought it should be logically split in some way between the LM and Chiltern franchisees, but that’s not guaranteed now.

 

[Energy]

I thought the last word from DfT was that they did now want it to be a separate franchise, which was part of the reason for removing through trains across Aylesbury?

I’d always thought it should be logically split in some way between the LM and Chiltern franchisees, but that’s not guaranteed now.

If it gets electrified then LNWR, if it doesn't then Chiltern in my opinion. Not much point having such a tiny franchise.

 

[Domh245]

Driver Controlled Operation won't be too hard to find, ETCS L2 will be

I'd say the opposite - there (will, by the time EWR starts operating) be designs for converting existing rolling stock to be capable of operating with ETCS L2, though needless to say some conversions will be more involved than others. Conversion to DCO will be more tricky as a result of the need to fit cameras and monitors, but neither are insurmountable

 

[class26]

- Swansea to Cardiff
- Bristol Parkway to Penzance and Plymouth
-Swindon to Bristol via Bath
-Reading to Banbury via Oxford

All the diesel routes that intercity main line services on GWR use.

You need to add Newbury to Taunton to complete the set

 

[AlastairFraser]

Yes but even more stark than that. A nuke can run 24 hours so that is 24GWhours

Lets be generous and say the solar farm runs for 10 hours every single day all year round loads of sunlight = 350x 10 = 3500MWhours = 3.5GWhours

No comparison

Yep but we don't have native supplies of uranium, nuclear waste is dangerous and expensive to store,they have to be located away from urban areas, in location with lots of water. It's not that great.

 

[anthony263]

- Swansea to Cardiff
- Bristol Parkway to Penzance and Plymouth
-Swindon to Bristol via Bath
-Reading to Banbury via Oxford

All the diesel routes that intercity main line services on GWR use.

Hopefully this will include the Maesteg branch as well as the vale of glamorgan line. If the wires reach Swansea then the swanline service can be run using emus as well as Maesteg services

 

[AlastairFraser]

If it got electrified how many electric trains, or even bi-modes would run down it from day 1? And if the answer is low how much carbon could have been saved by using those resources elsewhere?

There aren't many suitable DMU's that aren't already being used when there's plenty of ex-BR medium distance EMU's that are being replaced,which will be cheap to lease and provide greater capacity than most DMU's can for the same price,even with a heavy refurb.Also would allow electric through services from Oxford to King's Lynn,Peterborough and places further north,depending on ECML capacity.