Network Railcard Oyster discount fares

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bicbasher

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On the TfL website, Network Railcards can be added to an Oyster Card, as the card has a Mon-Fri minimum fare of £13 on the discount what exactly can you get a discount on?

From what I can read from both the TfL and Railcard site, it seems to only be an 1-6 travelcard at weekends.
 
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swt_passenger

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Checking the small print though, Network and Friends and Family cards still aren't eligible for Oyster PAYG discounts, and day travelcards are a paper product only.

If you goto the webpage:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/18343.aspx

and then open the tab 'How much do I save?' you'll find that the phrase "If you have an XXXX Card you can set the discount entitlement on a standard adult Oyster card..." doesn't appear for those two cards.

also if you open the tab 'How do I use it?' they are also not included.

The problem with the two cards is their use is just too complicated, as they can both provide benefits to more than one person (Network) or adults and a minimum number of children together (F&F). I reckon it would be just too difficult to make these features work on Oyster.
 

LexyBoy

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The problem with the two cards is their use is just too complicated, as they can both provide benefits to more than one person (Network) or adults and a minimum number of children together (F&F). I reckon it would be just too difficult to make these features work on Oyster.
I don't think it's an issue of being too complicated for the Network card, as Gold Cards can be added and work in exactly the same way except for the lack of a minimum fare. More likely it's a business decision.

F&F I agree is more complicated.
 

MikeWh

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I don't think it's an issue of being too complicated for the Network card, as Gold Cards can be added and work in exactly the same way except for the lack of a minimum fare. More likely it's a business decision.

F&F I agree is more complicated.
The railcards that can be added all work in exactly the same way. They give discounts off off-peak fares whenever they apply. With the Network Card this would only apply at weekends and bank holidays. This may seem like a trivial extra question, but when you are making several calculations on the fly which must be completed in milliseconds while the card is still over the reader, maybe it was deemed a question too far.
 

causton

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The railcards that can be added all work in exactly the same way. They give discounts off off-peak fares whenever they apply. With the Network Card this would only apply at weekends and bank holidays. This may seem like a trivial extra question, but when you are making several calculations on the fly which must be completed in milliseconds while the card is still over the reader, maybe it was deemed a question too far.
Indeed, thinking about all the data that needs to be sent across anyway between the reader in the card, then data needs to be fetched and calculated, times checked for max. journey times etc, and also checking discounts with normal railcards is just a matter of "off-peak or not" and not "is today a public holiday or a Saturday or a Sunday" by which time the person has probably noticed and Oyster is no longer 'instant'.
 

bb21

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Indeed, thinking about all the data that needs to be sent across anyway between the reader in the card, then data needs to be fetched and calculated, times checked for max. journey times etc, and also checking discounts with normal railcards is just a matter of "off-peak or not" and not "is today a public holiday or a Saturday or a Sunday" by which time the person has probably noticed and Oyster is no longer 'instant'.
From my understanding programming-wise, this isn't such a big ask, as it is just a series of Boolean evaluations and the whole section can be short-circuited if any of the statement returns false.

I really can't see that adding much extra workload as these evaluations should be instant, due to the fact that no memory juggling is required - all of the checks are done against the system clock.
 

RJ

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I don't think it's an issue of being too complicated for the Network card, as Gold Cards can be added and work in exactly the same way except for the lack of a minimum fare. More likely it's a business decision.

F&F I agree is more complicated.
Gold Cards are much simpler - the minimum fare on certain days of the week is what precludes the use of the NEW. Also, with Gold Cards, accompanying passengers using Oyster don't get any discount.

 

LexyBoy

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I see - I hadn't thought about the extra complexity of having to incorporate the day of the week as well. Doesn't Oyster treat all Railcards the same anyway, so that it would have to consider the type of railcard in addition to any time restrictions? (I realise that the R/C type is recorded, but I don't think the system cares which type it is). The Gold Card, like the Network Card, cannot be used before 1000 but this is disregarded by Oyster.

Regarding accompanying passengers, the GC T&Cs go to some length to explain how to buy discounted travel for compatriots in London - I don't think anyone would expect the discount to work with Oyster!
 

island

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Doesn't Oyster treat all Railcards the same anyway, so that it would have to consider the type of railcard in addition to any time restrictions?
I think so. I got a printout of my Oyster card data from a station at one point (I hold a Gold card) and all that was marked on it was "NR Railcard, exp 28DMR11".
 

RJ

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On my machine there are various discounts that can be loaded onto an Oyster, such as NR Railcard, New Deal, 16+, Under 11, Elite Athlete and Priv, nothing about individual railcard types though.
 

causton

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On my machine there are various discounts that can be loaded onto an Oyster, such as NR Railcard, New Deal, 16+, Under 11, Elite Athlete and Priv, nothing about individual railcard types though.
Indeed, all documentation I have received about my Oyster card just says "NR Railcard" - and I saw the screen when the ticket office lady registered my Oyster and she just selected "NR Railcard" and entered the expiry date :)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
From my understanding programming-wise, this isn't such a big ask, as it is just a series of Boolean evaluations and the whole section can be short-circuited if any of the statement returns false.

I really can't see that adding much extra workload as these evaluations should be instant, due to the fact that no memory juggling is required - all of the checks are done against the system clock.
Well I'm not that clued up on what happens during the instant you touch in/out - what data is sent where, where all the routing data is stored to calculate fares, what evaluations are made and what data is written to/read from the card. When gates are very busy and a lot of people touch in at the exact same time I have often received a "Seek assistance" with no code number, implying that it just couldn't do all those calculations in time :)
 

bicbasher

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So if a passenger loads a Network Card to Oyster, then uses PAYG during the week, surely they're liable to a penalty fare in that case?
 

MikeWh

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So if a passenger loads a Network Card to Oyster, then uses PAYG during the week, surely they're liable to a penalty fare in that case?
It can't be done. The page on the TfL site that mentions railcards does not say that the Network card can be used with Oyster. Only Forces, 16-25, Senior and Disabled railcards can be loaded onto Oyster cards. Plus Annual Gold Cards, of course.
 
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LexyBoy

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It can't be done. The page on the TfL site that mentions railcards does not say that the Network card can be used with Oyster. Only Forces, 16-25, Senior and Disabled railcards can be loaded onto Oyster cards.
And Gold Cards :) although the guy who did mine last time said they were not valid, but did it anyway, saying 'it's not my money, fares are too expensive anyway'!

Which reminds me, time to renew my Oyster railcard.
 
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