Never happened steam locomotives

[Entertexthere]

Good evening. I'm currently looking for ideas for a oo gauge model of a steam locomotive that was planned but never happened/turned into something else. So far I've got the 5AT and the 4-8-2 merchant navy as ideas. Any help?

 

[Midnight Sun]

ACE 3000

http://locomotive.wikia.com/wiki/ACE_3000

 

[Flying Phil]

Were there plans for a BR Standard 2 - 8 -2 that changed to become the 9F?

 

[Entertexthere]

Were there plans for a BR Standard 2 - 8 -2 that changed to become the 9F?

I think there was, just like a crosti boiler standard 5

 

[gazthomas]

How about the 5AT?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5AT_Advanced_Technology_Steam_Locomotive

 

[Entertexthere]

How about the 5AT?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5AT_Advanced_Technology_Steam_Locomotive

It's on my list already

 

[silverfoxcc]

Gresley Had ideas for a 4-8-2

 

[Entertexthere]

I don't own any of these images and credit is due to the owners

 

[341o2]

After the 4-8-2 MN was rejected, Bulleid proposed a 2-8-2 and construction of two prototypes was agreed "for testing",but he realised that testing could take place forever with no conclusions reached, so admitted defeat a second time and settled for a 4-6-2.

 

[AJM580]

If you can get hold of one, the book "Locomotives that never were" by Robin Barnes, has some excellent paintings of some never built locos

Off the top of my head, there was a proposed GWR Hawksworth 4-6-2, which was a bigger version of the Counties, and a LMS express Beyer-Garrett.

 

[Entertexthere]

If you can get hold of one, the book "Locomotives that never were" by Robin Barnes, has some excellent paintings of some never built locos

Off the top of my head, there was a proposed GWR Hawksworth 4-6-2, which was a bigger version of the Counties, and a LMS express Beyer-Garrett.

Many thanks! It does look like a book worth reading. The Hawksworth pacific appears to be very popultr in the modelling community, due to the fact that the GWR only ever had no.11? The great bear

Here's some images I found of the pacific

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_flAVZgTHLXU/Sg_hs7brePI/AAAAAAAAAbI/9iC_o2LNWSA/s1600-h/CIMG7392.jpg

 

[Spamcan81]

Good evening. I'm currently looking for ideas for a oo gauge model of a steam locomotive that was planned but never happened/turned into something else. So far I've got the 5AT and the 4-8-2 merchant navy as ideas. Any help?

Gresley had a 4-8-2 on the drawing board and Stanier was heading towards a 4-6-4 development of the Duchess class. Both stillborn due to WW2.

 

[Spartacus]

Apparently there was a 4-8-0 proposed by the GWR, sometimes called the Cathedral Class.

 

[Entertexthere]

Apparently there was a 4-8-0 proposed by the GWR, sometimes called the Cathedral Class.

The cathedral class was a strange one, as it was either planned to be a pacific or a 4-8-0

 

[co-tr-paul]

There is a long thread on the RM Web website if it helps, including many diagrams and pics.

 

[Entertexthere]

There is a long thread on the RM Web website if it helps, including many diagrams and pics.

Is that forum by any chance imaginary locomotives? I'm up to page 59 and the things people do are really cool

 

[Bevan Price]

E.S. Cox in his book "Locomotive Panorama" has drawings of several "possibilities" from the LMSR.

These include alternative designs for what eventually emerged as the LMSR Hughes "Crab" 2-6-0.

Proposed LMSR Hughes 4-6-2. Looks like an enlarged "Crab".
Enlarged 4-6-0 version of the "Midland Compound" 4-4-0s
LMSR Fowler designs for 4-6-2 & 2-8-2 freight loco.
1930s alternative designs for what eventually appeared as Stanier 5MT 4-6-0s & 8F 2-8-0s.
1930s / 1940s 0-6-0 & 2-4-2T alternatives to what appeared as the Ivatt 2-6-0s & 2-6-2T.

 

[alexl92]

These sound fascinating; is this book illustrated or are they merely described?

 

[Bevan Price]

These sound fascinating; is this book illustrated or are they merely described?

Mostly some side view engineering drawings, with variable amounts of discussion, although you may need a magnifying glass to read some of the details in the drawings.
Cox's book (issued as 2 volumes) is well worth reading for anyone interested in steam. He was highly critical of Derby Works Drawing Office and their long persistence in refusing to accept proven techniques to improve loco. performance. It took the arrival of "new broom" Stanier to sweep away some of the worst "Midland is best" obsessions.

(As an aside, Volume 2 includes a discussion on the early years of BR diesel traction, and gas turbines; the latter were said to be fuel efficient only under "full load" conditions, and inefficient / expensive to run under most operating conditions.)

 

[Pigeon]

Yes, the problem is that the compressor sucks 6000hp of the turbine output regardless of demand, so varying the demand from 0 to 3000hp corresponds to varying the actual turbine output from 6000hp to 9000hp.

Building something that works fine but only on continuous maximum output, on the assumption that it'll be on maximum output all the time, and then finding it doesn't actually work because the assumption is false, seems to be something of a recurrent mistake.

Anyway, mention of Derby works reminds me of the Paget locomotive, the point of which was to avoid the deficiencies of conventional valve gear by using a rotary valve. Unfortunately they failed to get a grip on differential expansion, with the result that differential expansion got a grip on the valve, and the thing used to seize up on tests and block the main line for hours, so it got canned as not worth the hassle.

 

[pdeaves]

I do like this. I wonder what we could have had, if design and operating concepts had been updated.

 

[30740]

ISTR that Maunsell at one time proposed a garrett. That would be great fun to model.

 

[theageofthetra]

R2

Yes, the problem is that the compressor sucks 6000hp of the turbine output regardless of demand, so varying the demand from 0 to 3000hp corresponds to varying the actual turbine output from 6000hp to 9000hp.

Building something that works fine but only on continuous maximum output, on the assumption that it'll be on maximum output all the time, and then finding it doesn't actually work because the assumption is false, seems to be something of a recurrent mistake.

Anyway, mention of Derby works reminds me of the Paget locomotive, the point of which was to avoid the deficiencies of conventional valve gear by using a rotary valve. Unfortunately they failed to get a grip on differential expansion, with the result that differential expansion got a grip on the valve, and the thing used to seize up on tests and block the main line for hours, so it got canned as not worth the hassle.

More on the Paget

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/paget/paget.htm

 

[NightStar]

How about a 4-8-4 the "Queen Class"? A cross between the 4-8-2 and a Spanish 4-8-4.

 

[Entertexthere]

How about a 4-8-4 the "Queen Class"? A cross between the 4-8-2 and a Spanish 4-8-4.

I actually really like that idea

 

[jp4712]

Check 'The Lancashire & Yorkshire in the 20th century' by Eric Mason which includes a line drawing of a 2-10-0 that came perilously close to being built. And E. S. Cox describes a Fowler LMS Pacific for which the frames were cut.

 

[NightStar]

I've managed to obtain permission to share the "Queen Class" drawing.

The Queen Class is based on an elongated version of this LMS 16P drawing. https://www.deviantart.com/omega-steam/art/LMS-16P-Sprite-305775269

The 4-8-4 Queen Class. https://www.deviantart.com/omega-steam/art/LMS-9P-Queen-Class-515067368

These drawings were made by Reymond St James. Omega Steam.

The Queen is one fine looking locomotive and I sure would love to see it become the focus of a new build locomotive project someday.

For now I would settle for a OO scale model of the Queen Class.

 

[NightStar]

Hmm, Another 4-8-4 British design. http://www.modelengineeringwebsite.com/LBSC_Uranus.html

And some more never built designs. Includes the Empire 4-8-4 design.

https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10993