"New Build" - Steam and Heritage Diesel

[Flying Phil]

There is considerable interest in "New Build", both steam and heritage diesel and so it would seem sensible to try a dedicated "New Build" thread.
From a brief look at websites, there appear to be at least 22 steam projects and at least 1 diesel (10,000) project.
Of those there are 5 which would seem to be very close to completion by 2020
Saint.....Lady of Legend 2999 Didcot
Grange...Betton Grange 6880 Llangollen
Patriot....Unknown Warrior 5551 Llangollen(?)
Atlantic...Beachy Head 32424 Bluebell
2MT 82045 Severn Valley

Others which consist of frames and other significant parts are:-
4709
3840
670
2001
2007
61662
61673
789
1759
567
35011
84030
72010


I'm sure others will be able to provide more up to date information and any missing projects.

 

[silverfoxcc]

Then on the diesel side i think the following are being pursued

10000
Baby Deltic
Type 14 ( or is it a 15?

are there others?

And dont forget the Brighton Belle

 

[MarkyT]

And dont forget the Brighton Belle

Original coaches I thought, albeit equipped with salvaged power bogies from another class.

 

[pdeaves]

Type 14 ( or is it a 15?

Unlikely to be a 14 as there are loads already in preservation (of course, that doesn't stop anyone from making another, but probably not!).

 

[Ploughman]

Would the NER Autocar qualify at Embsay?
Just completed and entered traffic this month according to HR.

 

[matt]

It's a class 15 but it is a restoration project not a new build.

 

[MarkyT]

Would the NER Autocar qualify at Embsay?
Just completed and entered traffic this month according to HR.

I think the new build terminology could plausibly include such 'recreations' that incorporate significant chunks of an original or an entirely different rail vehicle. Many early unpowered passenger coaches, found as bodyshells on farms for instance, have been very heavily rebuilt in preservation, often incorporating entirely new underframes and running gear, or donors from other vehicles.

 

[Flying Phil]

I don't think we need to be too prescriptive as some of the "new builds" contain old boilers, wheels, cylinders etc.
I did see the sales/information stands for the 72010 Hengist, 5551 Patriot and 61673 Sandringham projects on Loughborough Station platform this "Last Hurrah" Gala weekend. I had a good chat with the Sandringham team. They are making good progress with more castings on order. They recognize the difficulties inherent in having two B17 projects.....I also asked about the prospect of an A4 front casing B17/5....If somebody provides the money - no problem!

 

[Edders23]

The baby Deltic should be a reality they have quite a dedicated group trying to see this through

I wonder if the OP meant class 16 as all those were scrapped but it was quite an unremarkable design

The one which would be interesting albeit incredibly expensive to achieve would be a blue pullman set

 

[leezer3]

There's the NBL Class 22 Hydralic:
http://project22society.co.uk

They have an engine and a lot of other bits, but no transmission.

 

[Edders23]

There's the NBL Class 22 Hydralic:
http://project22society.co.uk

They have an engine and a lot of other bits, but no transmission.

This lot seemed to start with lots of enthusiasm but I wonder if they would ever achieve their goal as I would estimate they would need to generate something in the hundreds of thousands to complete the project and they are not a big group

 

[E&W Lucas]

Enthusiasts always seem to have a fascination with something new, then their interest seems to fade.
How many locos are sitting out of use on preserved railways, as there are not the funds to restore them?
Locos that have already operated in preservation, ie those that are essentially complete.
Of those, how many are unique survivors?
Don't include the National Collection, as there isn't the expectation that they will be restored to working condition.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

The baby Deltic should be a reality they have quite a dedicated group trying to see this through.

It's already substantially complete; I saw a picture somewhere last year showing that the bodywork modifications had already been completed.

 

[Flying Phil]

Enthusiasts always seem to have a fascination with something new, then their interest seems to fade.
How many locos are sitting out of use on preserved railways, as there are not the funds to restore them?
Locos that have already operated in preservation, ie those that are essentially complete.
Of those, how many are unique survivors?
Don't include the National Collection, as there isn't the expectation that they will be restored to working condition.

That is a very good point and I don't know the actual numbers, but I think most of the out of service locomotives do get overhauled, albeit slowly. The number of "Ex Barry hulks" (211?) is steadily reducing, 150 have now steamed. Given that the number of preserved lines (100+?) is still increasing and several are getting longer, there will be an increasing desire/need to operate steam locomotives and so "New Build" will be more common. Despite many predictions of "Too much already - some are doomed" the reality is that more funds are being raised on more projects than ever before.....Thankfully!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

When I hear about a scheme called something like "Project 151" or "Operation 210" I'll know that the preservation movement is truly about to eat itself!

 

[pdeaves]

When I hear about a scheme called something like "Project 151" or "Operation 210" I'll know that the preservation movement is truly about to eat itself!

Well, with all the other things going on, why not? I mean, there are still some 210 vehicles extant!

 

[Edders23]

It's already substantially complete; I saw a picture somewhere last year showing that the bodywork modifications had already been completed.

The bodywork is only a small part there is a matter of rewiring new engine mountings and cooling group plus numerous alterations and relocation of equipment within the smaller body

 

[Cowley]

The bodywork is only a small part there is a matter of rewiring new engine mountings and cooling group plus numerous alterations and relocation of equipment within the smaller body

The Baby Deltic project benefits from a number of things:
The standard English Electric parts bin, the availability of former class 20 bogies (pretty much the same as class 23 bogies), an excellent base to work at, an available working engine and original drawing diagrams from the NRM and the fact that they didn’t have to build the entire superstructure from scratch - the class 37 donor locomotive has many similarities.
Even with all of the above it’s taken a few years and a lot of work to get to this point.

What chance then have some of these other projects?
The class 22 63XX for a start.
Just to buy the complete transmission for a diesel hydraulic would take you into eye watering levels of expense.

 

[ALAN BYRNE]

Harking back to your list, and explanation of therein, Merchant Navy No.35011 will be utilising significant parts of the original Rebuilt Ex-Barry Loco (ie, Frames and Wheels etc, and presumably some of the boiler) to classify this as an 'Un-Rebuilding'?!?

 

[leezer3]

This lot seemed to start with lots of enthusiasm but I wonder if they would ever achieve their goal as I would estimate they would need to generate something in the hundreds of thousands to complete the project and they are not a big group

I'm not sure the money is the stopping point with this one.
Hundreds of thousands are eminently raiseable, and if they had everything in place bar the funding, lottery funding would probably give them a large chunk.

The issue is IMHO far more that they need to complete a full set of drawings for the loco, and then sort out the actual wiring diagrams etc. before they even consider laying down steel.
A diesel engine is a far more complicated beastie than a steam loco in terms of controls etc, and there are far less extant sources to draw from.

Remember that most of the current and successful steam newbuilds already have similar classes available and running to be able to borrow parts / ideas from.
The NBL hydraulics whilst I suppose similar to the WR variants in that they've got a diesel engine and hydraulic transmission were totally different engines internally.

 

[Flying Phil]

Harking back to your list, and explanation of therein, Merchant Navy No.35011 will be utilising significant parts of the original Rebuilt Ex-Barry Loco (ie, Frames and Wheels etc, and presumably some of the boiler) to classify this as an 'Un-Rebuilding'?!?

You are quite correct - it will be an UnRebuilt Merchant Navy!
Mind you, if you put a "Spam can" casing on an existing Merchant Navy, 90% of the viewers would not notice the valve gear difference anyway....
To their credit, they say it would cost as much to return it to steam as a rebuilt or as an original. Again the question is raised - how many Bulleid Pacifics do you need?

 

[Paul Hitchcock]

Again the question is raised - how many Bulleid Pacifics do you need?

Plain answer is "Not as many as we have"

 

[JohnR]

Again the question is raised - how many Bulleid Pacifics do you need?

I would say you can never have too many Bulleid Pacifics!

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

What about the firm that built Tornado, I think they are on the way to build another stem loco?

 

[JohnR]

What about the firm that built Tornado, I think they are on the way to build another stem loco?

I think theres two groups building a P2. The A1 Loco trust who own Tornado are building 2007 Prince of Wales while theres another group building 2001 Cock o'the North

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I think theres two groups building a P2. The A1 Loco trust who own Tornado are building 2007 Prince of Wales while theres another group building 2001 Cock o'the North

Oh yes, I recall hearing now about Prince of Wales. Is there not already a "Cock o'the North". ? I am sure that I have been on a train hauled by that in fairly recent years, perhaps either on the Jacobite or NYMR?

 

[Flying Phil]

What about the firm that built Tornado, I think they are on the way to build another stem loco?

You are correct the A1SLT (A1 Steam Locomotive Trust) are building the P2 2007 "Prince of Wales" and after that a V4..... and after that....

 

[ALAN BYRNE]

Ah, as one who used to see them storming through Wimbledon in the mid 60's, and where by that time the originals were well outnumbered by the Rebuilts, I'd welcome a re-Airsmoothed Merchant Navy, particularly as was pointed out earlier, the cost would be more or less the same??

 

[birchesgreen]

One survivor is being returned to steam in that state, plus there are quite a few preserved Merchant Navy class, wouldn't you rather a type of loco that didn't survive was built?

 

[Flying Phil]

Oh yes, I recall hearing now about Prince of Wales. Is there not already a "Cock o'the North". ? I am sure that I have been on a train hauled by that in fairly recent years, perhaps either on the Jacobite or NYMR?

I don't know what you were hauled by, but the only "Cock o' the North" being built is by the Doncaster P2 group, and really only consists of a pair of frame plates.
The A1SLT P2 is based at Darlington and is about halfway built.