New Cambridge South Station Timetable

[700720]

When the new Cambridge South station opens (expt 2025), does anyone know what services will call there. I assume the local services to Kings Cross/LST will stop, but will the Kings Cross expresses stop? Or will they still run fast from Cambridge Central?

 

[dk1]

I did hear that all services except half hourly Lynn/Ely-Kings Cross & Cross Country will call at the South Station but nothing is confirmed yet. I would expect it to be very popular indeed & wouldn’t be surprised if the express calls too eventually.

 

[bramling]

I did hear that all services except half hourly Lynn/Ely-Kings Cross & Cross Country will call at the South Station but nothing is confirmed yet. I would expect it to be very popular indeed & wouldn’t be surprised if the express calls too eventually.

Really the fast services should stop. It has always been an issue having Cambridge passengers filling up the slower services, which is a significant detriment to those further in, especially now there are no peak extras starting at places like Royston or Baldock. We really don’t need another Cambridge station dumping scores of passengers in to the slower services. Unfortunately at times it feels like the whole GN operation is based around pleasing Cambridge.

 

[dk1]

Really the fast services should stop. It has always been an issue having Cambridge passengers filling up the slower services, which is a significant detriment to those further in, especially now there are no peak extras starting at places like Royston or Baldock. We really don’t need another Cambridge station dumping scores of passengers in to the slower services. Unfortunately at times it feels like the whole GN operation is based around pleasing Cambridge.

It did take a while for them to call at Cambridge North and that is now very successful.

 

[Failed Unit]

I did hear that all services except half hourly Lynn/Ely-Kings Cross & Cross Country will call at the South Station but nothing is confirmed yet. I would expect it to be very popular indeed & wouldn’t be surprised if the express calls too eventually.

The hospital will clearly generate a lot of traffic, I don’t know the area that well, but it has reasonable access from the M11 (not sure if it is better or worse then Cambridge North). Also not paid enough attention as I have gone by a the car-Parking situation.

I expect all the Greater Anglia services to stop there. Definitely the Great Northern slow and can definitely see a justification for Kings Lynn services just for the hospitaL. Cross-Country no so sure about.

Does it have termination platforms? Could the Bury St Edmonds service extend.

I will certainly consider it over driving should it open, if I need to get to Addenbrooks

 

[dk1]

The hospital will clearly generate a lot of traffic, I don’t know the area that well, but it has reasonable access from the M11 (not sure if it is better or worse then Cambridge North). Also not paid enough attention as I have gone by a the car-Parking situation.

I expect all the Greater Anglia services to stop there. Definitely the Great Northern slow and can definitely see a justification for Kings Lynn services just for the hospitaL. Cross-Country no so sure about.

Does it have termination platforms? Could the Bury St Edmonds service extend.

I will certainly consider it over driving should it open, if I need to get to Addenbrooks

No terminating just 4 through platforms. The Ipswich services will not operate beyond Cambridge. Norwich-Stansted will call however.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thanks, depending on the service level it will be interesting when it opens how many new journeys it creates and how many it takes away from Cambridge. If I recall, the area is well serviced by buses, for people to take advantage of a shorter trip to the train.
Will see if the Thameslink services stop there.

 

[Magdalia]

The hospital will clearly generate a lot of traffic, I don’t know the area that well, but it has reasonable access from the M11 (not sure if it is better or worse then Cambridge North). Also not paid enough attention as I have gone by a the car-Parking situation.

Congestion is a significant issue for road traffic in and around Cambridge. Car parking on the Biomedical Campus is being expanded, with new temporary parking under construction near to the helipad, although it has already reached the point where the road capacity can no longer cope. There is also car parking at the Trumpington and Babraham Road Park and Ride sites. There is no car parking at Cambridge South station, but lots of bicycle parking.

People getting to and from work on the Biomedical Campus is more important than people getting to and from the hospitals. That's why the Kings Lynn/Ely GN trains need to stop. In particular it will be absurd if a new station is built in Waterbeach, for thousands of new homes, then not provide them with direct trains to Cambridge South.

The new station is a long way from Addenbrookes Outpatients. People going to outpatients appointments will still find it easier to go to the main Cambridge station then get the bus.

Cross-Country no so sure about.

I will be surprised if Cross Country stop, they don't stop at Cambridge North. The issue for them is the need to provide longer trains.

If the only Ely-Cambridge South through trains are the Norwich-Stansteds then there will be severe overcrowding.

Will see if the Thameslink services stop there.

The impression I have is that these will stop. But they don't go to Cambridge North.

One other point. The new station has the potential to transform travel in Cambridge. For the first time in history it will be possible to get from one side of the city to the other in 10 minutes, just by hopping on a train between North and South stations. In that respect, the more trains there are that stop at both, the better it will be.

 

[ac6000cw]

Thanks, depending on the service level it will be interesting when it opens how many new journeys it creates and how many it takes away from Cambridge. If I recall, the area is well serviced by buses, for people to take advantage of a shorter trip to the train.
Will see if the Thameslink services stop there.

The new station is literally on the opposite edge of the large 'campus' from the very busy bus station that also serves it (about 1km in a direct line between bus and railway stations). So most bus-train interchange would involve a 10-15 minute walk, so just staying on the same bus to Cambridge station might be as quick overall especially if heading north by train.

The new station is a long way from Addenbrookes Outpatients. People going to outpatients appointments will still find it easier to go to the main Cambridge station then get the bus.

I agree.

 

[Magdalia]

So most bus-train interchange would involve a 10-15 minute walk

Some buses stop near the new station, including the guided busway routes.

 

[ac6000cw]

Some buses stop near the new station, including the guided busway routes.

I know - that's why I said 'most'

 

[Failed Unit]

Lets hope that the station gets a decent service. It is always difficult to tell where passengers are ultimately going, but when Great Northern used to operate to Cambridge North there were a reasonable amount of people that stayed on the train at Cambridge. Likewise now the services that terminate at Cambridge, it is impossible to tell how many of them are getting a bus to the science park.

We shall see, as said above I can see it generating new cross Cambridge traffic.

 

[ac6000cw]

Lets hope that the station gets a decent service. It is always difficult to tell where passengers are ultimately going, but when Great Northern used to operate to Cambridge North there were a reasonable amount of people that stayed on the train at Cambridge. Likewise now the services that terminate at Cambridge, it is impossible to tell how many of them are getting a bus to the science park.

We shall see, as said above I can see it generating new cross Cambridge traffic.

GN services north of Cambridge (i.e. to/from Ely and Kings Lynn) stop at Cambridge North. Generally it's only XC that doesn't stop there. Thameslink services don't extend beyond Cambridge (but you do get cl.700 operating GN services north of Cambridge sometimes).

 

[700720]

I would suggest extending the GN CBG-KGX stopping services to Ely. this would provide an extra tph (2tph at peak) from Ely/Waterbeach/Camb North to Cambridge South (and stations towards Kings Cross). This would enable the GN expresses to skip Cambridge South. Also don't forget that a 12-car class 700 will be stopping 2tph with services straight into Central London and onto Gatwick & Brighton.

People going to outpatients appointments will still find it easier to go to the main Cambridge station then get the bus.

Hopefully, they put some sort of bus shuttle from Cambridge South to outpatients & other parts of the campus that are far away

 

[jamieh27]

When the new Cambridge South station opens (expt 2025), does anyone know what services will call there. I assume the local services to Kings Cross/LST will stop, but will the Kings Cross expresses stop? Or will they still run fast from Cambridge Central?

Great Northern, Greater Anglia and soon East West Rail.

 

[WestCountry]

GN services north of Cambridge (i.e. to/from Ely and Kings Lynn) stop at Cambridge North. Generally it's only XC that doesn't stop there. Thameslink services don't extend beyond Cambridge (but you do get cl.700 operating GN services north of Cambridge sometimes).

When Cambridge North first opened, the Ely/Lynn fasts didn't call but the GN semi-fast 2Cxx was extended to terminate in the bay at North.

That lasted for a year or two before it was cut back and a Liverpool Street service extended in its place. Commuters from Foxton etc. to the Science Park were a bit frustrated.

 

[Failed Unit]

Lets hope that the station gets a decent service. It is always difficult to tell where passengers are ultimately going, but when Great Northern used to operate to Cambridge North there were a reasonable amount of people that stayed on the train at Cambridge. Likewise now the services that terminate at Cambridge, it is impossible to tell how many of them are getting a bus to the science park.

We shall see, as said above I can see it generating new cross Cambridge traffic.

I was meaning the London Kings Cross - Cambridge service, which I think alternated with The Liverpool Street - Cambridge service. Alternate paths it did used to run to Cambridge North. If Both the Liverpool Street and King Cross services went to Cambridge North I understand they would be very close together. I assume GN either didn’t like the performance risk on the slow service, or DFT thought the terminating service was better supplied by one operator. Understand the fast ones still stop there, so I should have being more clear as the Kings Cross - Cambridge service does provide connectivity to more places.

 

[bramling]

I was meaning the London Kings Cross - Cambridge service, which I think alternated with The Liverpool Street - Cambridge service. Alternate paths it did used to run to Cambridge North. If Both the Liverpool Street and King Cross services went to Cambridge North I understand they would be very close together. I assume GN either didn’t like the performance risk on the slow service, or DFT thought the terminating service was better supplied by one operator. Understand the fast ones still stop there, so I should have being more clear as the Kings Cross - Cambridge service does provide connectivity to more places.

The swap from TL to GA was done IIRC because 10-car GA trains can’t fit in platforms 2 and 3 at Cambridge. Hence it was preferable to cut the 700/0 services back to Cambridge, and run GA to Cambridge North instead. Though of course it was spun as an improvement for passengers.

 

[jammmmmsssssss]

GN services north of Cambridge (i.e. to/from Ely and Kings Lynn) stop at Cambridge North. Generally it's only XC that doesn't stop there. Thameslink services don't extend beyond Cambridge (but you do get cl.700 operating GN services north of Cambridge sometimes).

Also, the 17:07 and 18:07 from Liverpool Street to Ely don't stop at Cambridge North, but there is a 18:22 and a 19:22 from Cambridge for people going to Cambridge North.

 

[mr_moo]

Hi everyone.

Sorry for radio silence for a while. Life was crazy (fuller apology on the construction progress thread soon).

As most of you know, this is my project. I'm involved in many discussions re timetabling and services.
The official line: It will be well served but no official decision has yet been made, and we cannot share any final patterns.

The info that's not really any secret:
All Greater Anglia Services will stop. Indeed, the station will be operated by Greater Anglia too.
Some Thameslink will stop. Probably a very high percentage. Possibly all.
Great Northern - As Thameslink.
Cross-country - I have to remain fairly tight lipped about this one. That's firmly in the 'final decision not yet made' category and discussions are ongoing. But suffice to say it's not a definate no.

That's pretty much all I can say at present. Official announcements are still probably a few months away yet at least.

The hospital will clearly generate a lot of traffic, I don’t know the area that well, but it has reasonable access from the M11 (not sure if it is better or worse then Cambridge North). Also not paid enough attention as I have gone by a the car-Parking situation.

I'd say it has great access from the M11, but there's one key issue - that access is to the Trumpington park and ride. The station itself has no public car park. It has 1000 bike parking spaces, and has bus stops not far away, with connections from the P&R, but you wont be able to park at the station itself. There is a drop-off/pick-up area though.

 

[cle]

Sounds very positive re stopping. One day there is probably a future where almost everything calls South-Central-North if not terminating. To encourage those intra-city journeys and use capacity locally. Mini-Crossrail of sorts, even to Ely.

Cambridge North in theory could fit another platform. It might be easier than the eastern one planned at Cambridge Central - merely to extend a few TL trains through the 'core'.

Equally, knowing the Stansted tunnel capacity limit, it would be great to have another place to terminate south of Cambridge South, if demand for another Norwich, or something towards Peterborough - or better yet, the Ipswich being extended (which would in theory become 1tph EWR, if ever built?) - was possible, for more regional connectivity to South.

 

[mr_moo]

Also, we're already considering future East West rail services. Intention is most if not all of those will stop too.

 

[cle]

Ahh yes of course, I mentioned indirectly re Ipswich extension, but of course if it is like 4tph from Bedford (why build for less!) - I'd expect they all call too. Maybe 1-2tph will be able to reach North or Ely (I wish it had a south-facing bay or two, for growth) - to add to the cross-Cambridge effect.

 

[Max]

My wife works at the Biomedical Campus and cannot wait for Cambridge South to open. We live east of Cambridge and currently drive to the Babraham Road Park and Ride, but the traffic is so bad around Addenbrookes in the morning that it will make much more sense to park at Cambridge North and take the train to Cambridge South in the future.

 

[mr_moo]

My wife works at the Biomedical Campus and cannot wait for Cambridge South to open. We live east of Cambridge and currently drive to the Babraham Road Park and Ride, but the traffic is so bad around Addenbrookes in the morning that it will make much more sense to park at Cambridge North and take the train to Cambridge South in the future.

I'm doing my best! I look forward to her enjoying the results of my (and many other's!) work.

 

[weeklycommuter]

Congestion is a significant issue for road traffic in and around Cambridge. Car parking on the Biomedical Campus is being expanded, with new temporary parking under construction near to the helipad, although it has already reached the point where the road capacity can no longer cope. There is also car parking at the Trumpington and Babraham Road Park and Ride sites. There is no car parking at Cambridge South station, but lots of bicycle parking.

People getting to and from work on the Biomedical Campus is more important than people getting to and from the hospitals. That's why the Kings Lynn/Ely GN trains need to stop. In particular it will be absurd if a new station is built in Waterbeach, for thousands of new homes, then not provide them with direct trains to Cambridge South.

The new station is a long way from Addenbrookes Outpatients. People going to outpatients appointments will still find it easier to go to the main Cambridge station then get the bus.

I will be surprised if Cross Country stop, they don't stop at Cambridge North. The issue for them is the need to provide longer trains.

If the only Ely-Cambridge South through trains are the Norwich-Stansteds then there will be severe overcrowding.

The impression I have is that these will stop. But they don't go to Cambridge North.

One other point. The new station has the potential to transform travel in Cambridge. For the first time in history it will be possible to get from one side of the city to the other in 10 minutes, just by hopping on a train between North and South stations. In that respect, the more trains there are that stop at both, the better it will be.

I cannot see any way that it would ever be quicker or more attractive to exit Cambridge Railway Station, especially arriving on a very busy train on platform 7 or 8 and having to walk in the crowd of people crossing the footbridge, walk to the one of the many bus stops on the long road going South from Cambridge Railway Station, wait several minutes or longer for a bus then sit on a bus on congested roads to Addenbrookes Bus Station than to exit Cambridge South Railway Station and walk to any part of the Biomedical Campus. The big advantage of walking is it is not necessary to wait and the time taken is predictable whereas it is difficult to be certain how long the wait will be for a bus.
I am guessing that every train going to or from Cambridge Railway Station from the South will call at Cambridge South Railway Station as I do not see how it would work reliably to timetable any trains through Cambridge South Railway Station without stopping while all the other trains call at the station. Many more trains will be routed through Cambridge South Railway Station than through Cambridge North Railway Station.

Really the fast services should stop. It has always been an issue having Cambridge passengers filling up the slower services, which is a significant detriment to those further in, especially now there are no peak extras starting at places like Royston or Baldock. We really don’t need another Cambridge station dumping scores of passengers in to the slower services. Unfortunately at times it feels like the whole GN operation is based around pleasing Cambridge.

At Kings Cross the stopping services to Cambridge used to be advertised as going to Foxton to discourage Cambridge bound passengers from using them. At Cambridge and at Kings Cross (and at Cambridge South when it opens) there should be some information advising Cambridge passengers to use the Kings Cross-Ely/Kings Lynn train or the Cambridge-Brighton 12 car Thameslink train via St Pancras as their journey will then be a lot quicker.

 

[Magdalia]

I cannot see any way that it would ever be quicker or more attractive to exit Cambridge Railway Station, especially arriving on a very busy train on platform 7 or 8 and having to walk in the crowd of people crossing the footbridge, walk to the one of the many bus stops on the long road going South from Cambridge Railway Station, wait several minutes or longer for a bus then sit on a bus on congested roads to Addenbrookes Bus Station than to exit Cambridge South Railway Station and walk to any part of the Biomedical Campus. The big advantage of walking is it is not necessary to wait and the time taken is predictable whereas it is difficult to be certain how long the wait will be for a bus.

People who have appointments at outpatients are going there because they have some sort of medical condition. Many of them are not able to walk the long distance from the new station to the outpatients department. It may not seem a long walk to you but many visitors to outpatients won't share your view.

The guided busway routes stop outside the main outpatients entrance and the main Addenbrookes bus station is only a short distance away.

You are right that it is also a fairly long walk from the island platform at Cambridge station to the bus stops, but assistance is available, and going the other way it is a much shorter walk from the bus stops to the platforms in the old part of the station. Furthermore, the guided busway routes have the stops nearest to the main station.

And the guided busway does not have congestion on it!

For outpatients needing to minimise walking the old station and the guided busway is still going to be the best option.

 

[LickeyIncliner]

Hi everyone.

Sorry for radio silence for a while. Life was crazy (fuller apology on the construction progress thread soon).

As most of you know, this is my project. I'm involved in many discussions re timetabling and services.
The official line: It will be well served but no official decision has yet been made, and we cannot share any final patterns.

The info that's not really any secret:
All Greater Anglia Services will stop. Indeed, the station will be operated by Greater Anglia too.
Some Thameslink will stop. Probably a very high percentage. Possibly all.
Great Northern - As Thameslink.
Cross-country - I have to remain fairly tight lipped about this one. That's firmly in the 'final decision not yet made' category and discussions are ongoing. But suffice to say it's not a definate no.

That's pretty much all I can say at present. Official announcements are still probably a few months away yet at least.


I'd say it has great access from the M11, but there's one key issue - that access is to the Trumpington park and ride. The station itself has no public car park. It has 1000 bike parking spaces, and has bus stops not far away, with connections from the P&R, but you wont be able to park at the station itself. There is a drop-off/pick-up area though.

Thanks for this.

From what I know of the history of Cambridge South, the first proposals (in the early privatisation period, or possibly before) failed because of disagreement between the railways, who wanted a park-and-ride station for London commuters, and the local authorities, who wanted an additional city station for commuters and others coming into Cambridge. It's interesting that the latter view has won out. What has changed (and was at least to some extent foreseen by the local authorities) is (i) the growth of commuting into Cambridge in general from surrounding towns, especially those to the north, and (ii) the growth of the Biomedical Campus around Addenbrookes Hospital, which means there is now a major and still-growing concentration of employment between the Hospital and the Cambridge South site. The existing and potential future employment at the Biomedical Campus is part of the reasons why the preferred route for East-West Rail is into Cambridge via Cambridge South, and is a good reason why as far as possible all services from north of Cambridge should call at South.

 

[Magdalia]

What has changed (and was at least to some extent foreseen by the local authorities) is (i) the growth of commuting into Cambridge in general from surrounding towns, especially those to the north, and (ii) the growth of the Biomedical Campus around Addenbrookes Hospital, which means there is now a major and still-growing concentration of employment between the Hospital and the Cambridge South site. The existing and potential future employment at the Biomedical Campus is part of the reasons why the preferred route for East-West Rail is into Cambridge via Cambridge South, and is a good reason why as far as possible all services from north of Cambridge should call at South.

This is a good summary.

The bit I would add is that Addenbrookes is not the only hospital on the Biomedical Campus:

• the Rosie Maternity Hospital has been next to Addenbrookes for more than 40 years
• Royal Papworth opened on the Biomedical Campus in 2019
• work has just started on preparing the site for the new regional children's hospital
• there are plans for a regional cancer hospital near to the main Astra Zeneca building

Rail traffic to and from all of these is not just about patient travel, it is about employees too. Hospitals have lots of employees, many of whom are not paid well enough to be able to afford to live in Cambridge.

 

[Class 170101]

Cross-country - I have to remain fairly tight lipped about this one. That's firmly in the 'final decision not yet made' category and discussions are ongoing. But suffice to say it's not a definate no.

On the basis they don't currently stop at Cambridge North I would be surprised if they stopped at Cambridge South