New Car Tyres - Cuts etc

[moleman212]

Hey guys - Not knowing a thing about tyres and wondering if anyone else does (realise this is a rail forum but might be some auto experts around lol)

Got 4 new tyres fitted yesterday - Inspected them today and saw a crack to one of them - Tyre place says this one will be replaced

Then started looking more closely and noticed all have little marks / cuts on them. Are these anything to worry about? Tyre place says they look normal.

On further note they inflated one tyre to 4.0 bar and another to 3.2 when really they should be 2.5 ish...

Thanks guys!

 

[Cloud Strife]

On further note they inflated one tyre to 4.0 bar and another to 3.2 when really they should be 2.5 ish...

Tyre pressure to some extent can be a personal choice, as for instance, I prefer having mine at 2.6/2.7 on longer journeys over the recommended 2.2 (at the front, the rears will go to 2.8/9 over the recommended 2.6). But 4.0 seems very excessive and not something I'd be happy with.

 

[AlterEgo]

Tyre pressure to some extent can be a personal choice, as for instance, I prefer having mine at 2.6/2.7 on longer journeys over the recommended 2.2 (at the front, the rears will go to 2.8/9 over the recommended 2.6). But 4.0 seems very excessive and not something I'd be happy with.

4.0 vice 2.5 is unsafe. Tyres need to have a little give so plenty of rubber is exposed to the road, giving better grip.

An overinflated tyre is bad news and a spin out waiting to happen.

 

[Ted633]

I'm assuming that the first photo is of the tyre they replaced? If not, I'd get that replaced as you shouldn't have that sort of damage to the tyre sidewall. As for the rest of them, it all looks like marks you get in tyres from running over gravel etc. They don't look very deep at all and are nothing t worry about (and perfectly normal & safe).

No garage should be inflating your tyres to anywhere near that sort of pressure. As they've all been inflated to different pressures as well, that indicates carelessness. You should let some air out of the ones that are over inflated.

I'd strongly recommend not using that garage again.

 

[Snow1964]

I have significant concerns looking at the photos, and for the Op going to try and explain it longhand

A garage that is that careless with pressures has probably put the wheels back on with wrong torque too, an extra burst with a air gun is not professional way, instead of a correctly using torque wrench. (correct torque will be in your handbook, something like 110-120 Nm)

The little marks appear to be from stones, however from the tread patterns they also appear to be summer tyres (an odd choice in November when weather is getting too cold for summer tyres to grip) rather than all season (all year) or winter tyres. But maybe customer was offered some deal without the season being mentioned and they offered something inappropriate for time of year and UK climate.

Looking at them, I am not convinced they are brand new tyres, and think they are a set of nearly new that came off another car, if that owner sensibly changed to all season tyres, or offloaded them due to damage. New tyres have certain amount of shiny tyre mould release residue (which soon scrubs off), and coloured lines to help fitters putting them on rims. I cannot see that in the photos.

Check the date code. There is a 4 digit number on the side near the rims, first two digits are week number, second two are year, so for instance a tyre showing 3322 would be week 33 (August) in 2022. Too many months ago, and although legally could be new tyres, they not the latest stock.

Just in case you are wondering why new cars come with summer tyres, (rather than all season tyres suitable for UK climate) it is because they give marginally better fuel consumption and lower emissions when doing WLTP tests (world standard tests), but these tests are done at something like +21c or +23c which is of course much higher than average day and night temperature in UK. In reality summer tyres performance (grip) falls off sharply below about +10c, and don’t grip well in cold rain. Below about +5c and tyres will be poor in wet, and hopeless in sleet, frost and snow. The assumption is owners will switch to winter (cold weather) tyres November-March or fit all season (sometimes called 4 season) tyres and use those all year. European winter tyres are for cold weather, cold rain and some snow, do not confuse them with snow tyres (in Europe usually called Nordic winter tyres) which are for areas with months of lying snow.

Everyone knows rubber gets soft and sticky when warm and hard when cold, so a tyre has an ideal temperature range, to widen this various compounds adding silica, polymers etc are needed. It is harder and costs more (as need more complicated compounds) to make a tyre that does this and has good wear resistance too. Budget tyres will normally not grip well, or wear fast so are false economy as need replacing more often. You simply can’t make a cheap all season tyre (the required compounds cost too much). So look for upper mid range to premium for safe tyres.

I would not ever use that garage again, their practices do not put customer safety first. If they didn’t advise that fitting summer tyres at start of winter is stupid then not considering safety. Remember tyres are only thing that keeps you on the road in a corner, or if you need to brake in an emergency. If tyres don’t grip then you will probably crash (and might injure or kill a pedestrian or cyclist).

But as you need to go back, ask them specifically what tyre pressure and wheel nut torque they will use, and watch them. Unless they were sold as nearly new tyres I would want an explanation of why they appear used. They might then do job properly. (Tyre pressures are often on a label inside fuel filler, or on front door pillar (might be passenger side). Might get 2 or 3 different pressures (with 2 people, with luggage, and eco setting). Front and back wheels pressure might be different. The eco numbers often confuse, treat as for cruising to your holiday villa in dry summer weather, not for winding wet UK B roads, or simply ignore it. Tyre pressure will change with temperature so set when tyres are cold, not after a long journey.

For future reference, summer tyres are optimised for about +7c to +33c, all season for about -4c to 21c, winter below about +13c. Varies a bit by brands, and will happily work outside these ranges, but with diminishing grip as get further away from ideal temperatur range. Note road surface and air temperature are not always same so don’t get too hung up with detail. But it should be obvious get lot more mornings below +5c than days with temperatures of over 30c in UK

Hope this gives you bit of knowledge.

 

[paul1609]

Dont look like new tyres to me unless youve had them a few weeks. Difficult to tell but picture 3 looks like its possibly the top of a puncture repair.

 

[moleman212]

Thanks guys! Very helpful.

These were sold as 'New'

Went back to him and he says all his tyres have come off 'new' cars - whatever that means.

All the tyres in the pics were the 'new' tyres.

Given an earful to the garage owner who has given me an earful back. Upshot is I'll get my old tyres back and he's taking back these duds and I never have to see that place again.

 

[Bertone]

Thanks guys! Very helpful.

These were sold as 'New'

Went back to him and he says all his tyres have come off 'new' cars - whatever that means.

All the tyres in the pics were the 'new' tyres.

Given an earful to the garage owner who has given me an earful back. Upshot is I'll get my old tyres back and he's taking back these duds and I never have to see that place again.

Looking at the photos and from what others have said, I reckon the above result is definitely the best outcome.
Obviously the garage not a ”Kwik Fit” type tyre specialist.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Thanks guys! Very helpful.

These were sold as 'New'

Went back to him and he says all his tyres have come off 'new' cars - whatever that means.

All the tyres in the pics were the 'new' tyres.

Given an earful to the garage owner who has given me an earful back. Upshot is I'll get my old tyres back and he's taking back these duds and I never have to see that place again.

I'd follow this up with a report to the local Trading Standards office...

 

[Snow1964]

So tyres were newly new, if come off other cars. That garage needs reporting to Trading standards

Do an Internet search, get new set of all season tyres fitted at a different place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is clearly dodgy. Good that you have returned them. One of those looks repaired.

The UK largely doesn't do winter tyres. There is no legal requirement and hardly anyone bothers with them for the week or so a year they may be useful.

 

[Snow1964]

This is clearly dodgy. Good that you have returned them. One of those looks repaired.

The UK largely doesn't do winter tyres. There is no legal requirement and hardly anyone bothers with them for the week or so a year they may be useful.

Winter tyres are better in cold rain (below about +10c) or about +5c in dry than summer tyres. I don’t know which part of the country (apart from Scilly Isles) has only one week where temperatures of below +10c occur.

I think you are mixing them up with snow tyres (also called Nordic winter tyres). Which are for countries with months of laying snow.

Normal winter tyres are preferable from November until about early April (maybe week or two less in far south), I make that 5 months not a week.

But if you want to drive on a damp motorway (because it has been salted) at -2c with summer tyres and negligible grip at 70+ mph, then I fear for other road users if you have to do an emergency stop.

If you want to keep same tyres all year, get all season tyres, not summer tyres.

 

[Speed43125]

Winter tyres are better in cold rain (below about +10c) or about +5c in dry than summer tyres. I don’t know which part of the country (apart from Scilly Isles) has only one week where temperatures of below +10c occur.

I think you are mixing them up with snow tyres (also called Nordic winter tyres). Which are for countries with months of laying snow.

Normal winter tyres are preferable from November until about early April (maybe week or two less in far south), I make that 5 months not a week.

But if you want to drive on a damp motorway (because it has been salted) at -2c with summer tyres and negligible grip at 70+ mph, then I fear for other road users if you have to do an emergency stop.

If you want to keep same tyres all year, get all season tyres, not summer tyres.

But the reality is the average car in the UK will see a set of Michelin/Pirelli/Goodyear summers from new until they need replaced on the driven axle (and possibly all 4 at once) whereupon whatever's reasonably cheap will be fitted, and this may be either all season or summer, with few people making an effort to check.

 

[BingMan]

I have significant concerns looking at the photos, and for the Op going to try and explain it longhand

A garage that is that careless with pressures has probably put the wheels back on with wrong torque too, an extra burst with a air gun is not professional way, instead of a correctly using torque wrench. (correct torque will be in your handbook, something like 110-120 Nm)

The little marks appear to be from stones, however from the tread patterns they also appear to be summer tyres (an odd choice in November when weather is getting too cold for summer tyres to grip) rather than all season (all year) or winter tyres. But maybe customer was offered some deal without the season being mentioned and they offered something inappropriate for time of year and UK climate.

Looking at them, I am not convinced they are brand new tyres, and think they are a set of nearly new that came off another car, if that owner sensibly changed to all season tyres, or offloaded them due to damage. New tyres have certain amount of shiny tyre mould release residue (which soon scrubs off), and coloured lines to help fitters putting them on rims. I cannot see that in the photos.

Check the date code. There is a 4 digit number on the side near the rims, first two digits are week number, second two are year, so for instance a tyre showing 3322 would be week 33 (August) in 2022. Too many months ago, and although legally could be new tyres, they not the latest stock.

Just in case you are wondering why new cars come with summer tyres, (rather than all season tyres suitable for UK climate) it is because they give marginally better fuel consumption and lower emissions when doing WLTP tests (world standard tests), but these tests are done at something like +21c or +23c which is of course much higher than average day and night temperature in UK. In reality summer tyres performance (grip) falls off sharply below about +10c, and don’t grip well in cold rain. Below about +5c and tyres will be poor in wet, and hopeless in sleet, frost and snow. The assumption is owners will switch to winter (cold weather) tyres November-March or fit all season (sometimes called 4 season) tyres and use those all year. European winter tyres are for cold weather, cold rain and some snow, do not confuse them with snow tyres (in Europe usually called Nordic winter tyres) which are for areas with months of lying snow.

Everyone knows rubber gets soft and sticky when warm and hard when cold, so a tyre has an ideal temperature range, to widen this various compounds adding silica, polymers etc are needed. It is harder and costs more (as need more complicated compounds) to make a tyre that does this and has good wear resistance too. Budget tyres will normally not grip well, or wear fast so are false economy as need replacing more often. You simply can’t make a cheap all season tyre (the required compounds cost too much). So look for upper mid range to premium for safe tyres.

I would not ever use that garage again, their practices do not put customer safety first. If they didn’t advise that fitting summer tyres at start of winter is stupid then not considering safety. Remember tyres are only thing that keeps you on the road in a corner, or if you need to brake in an emergency. If tyres don’t grip then you will probably crash (and might injure or kill a pedestrian or cyclist).

But as you need to go back, ask them specifically what tyre pressure and wheel nut torque they will use, and watch them. Unless they were sold as nearly new tyres I would want an explanation of why they appear used. They might then do job properly. (Tyre pressures are often on a label inside fuel filler, or on front door pillar (might be passenger side). Might get 2 or 3 different pressures (with 2 people, with luggage, and eco setting). Front and back wheels pressure might be different. The eco numbers often confuse, treat as for cruising to your holiday villa in dry summer weather, not for winding wet UK B roads, or simply ignore it. Tyre pressure will change with temperature so set when tyres are cold, not after a long journey.

For future reference, summer tyres are optimised for about +7c to +33c, all season for about -4c to 21c, winter below about +13c. Varies a bit by brands, and will happily work outside these ranges, but with diminishing grip as get further away from ideal temperatur range. Note road surface and air temperature are not always same so don’t get too hung up with detail. But it should be obvious get lot more mornings below +5c than days with temperatures of over 30c in UK

Hope this gives you bit of knowledge.

But summer tyre are what are recommended by the car manufacturer. Fitting tyres which are not manufacturer recommended - eg winter tyres - would be unprofessional and possibly invalidate insurance.

Winter tyres are better in cold rain (below about +10c) or about +5c in dry than summer tyres. I don’t know which part of the country (apart from Scilly Isles) has only one week where temperatures of below +10c occur.

I think you are mixing them up with snow tyres (also called Nordic winter tyres). Which are for countries with months of laying snow.

Normal winter tyres are preferable from November until about early April (maybe week or two less in far south), I make that 5 months not a week.

But if you want to drive on a damp motorway (because it has been salted) at -2c with summer tyres and negligible grip at 70+ mph, then I fear for other road users if you have to do an emergency stop.

If you want to keep same tyres all year, get all season tyres, not summer tyres.

I always call them cold weather tyres rather than winter tyres. I used to change them spring and autumn but the cost of doing so is about £40 so I leave leave them on 31/12 and accept the shgorter life.

 

[the sniper]

The little marks appear to be from stones, however from the tread patterns they also appear to be summer tyres (an odd choice in November when weather is getting too cold for summer tyres to grip) rather than all season (all year) or winter tyres. But maybe customer was offered some deal without the season being mentioned and they offered something inappropriate for time of year and UK climate.

I agree with much of what you've said, but as others have said and I imagine you know, in much of the UK it is entirely normal for people to have fitted and use summer tyres all year round. I don't think the OP should be given the impression they were duped on this front. Whether you or I agree with that practice is another matter, but for much of the population it will be very hard to justify winter tyres that are only particularly worthwhile for a few days a year. All seasons are probably a better choice for people who aren't particularly committed drivers though.

 

[skyhigh]

But summer tyre are what are recommended by the car manufacturer. Fitting tyres which are not manufacturer recommended - eg winter tyres - would be unprofessional and possibly invalidate insurance.

That's ridiculous. By that logic, do I have to fit the exact make and model of tyre that's fitted on the car as new to be covered by my insurance as that's the tyre that's 'recommended' by the manufacturer?

And for what it's worth, a quick check of my handbook says:

Snow or Winter tyres
We would recommend that these be fitted to all four wheels when appropriate to ensure that your vehicle retains maximum adhesion.

So I think it's crazy to suggest that fitting more appropriate tyres for the conditions is unprofessional or risks invalidating your insurance!

 

[Ediswan]

All seasons are probably a better choice for people who aren't particularly committed drivers though.

I have all season tyres, but I have no idea what a 'commited driver' is.

 

[the sniper]

I have all season tyres, but I have no idea what a 'commited driver' is.

As in, you won't be pushing them too hard in the summer. For just plodding about as most people do, all seasons are fine for the summer.

 

[Snow1964]

As in, you won't be be pushing them too hard in the summer. For just plodding about as most people do, all seasons are fine for the summer.

Yes all seasons, at least you can normally drive home if weather turns nasty and don’t have to abandon the car.

Admittedly if anyone is the sort of person obsessed with shaving a tenth of a second off a lap time on a warm day, then use different tyres, but normal people want their cars for year round use whatever the weather is.

 

[the sniper]

Yes all seasons, at least you can normally drive home if weather turns nasty and don’t have to abandon the car.

Admittedly if anyone is the sort of person obsessed with shaving a tenth of a second off a lap time on a warm day, then use different tyres, but normal people want their cars for year round use whatever the weather is.

It's not really a matter of 'shaving a tenth of a second off a lap time'. You can't on one hand argue that using summer tyres on a typical British winter day is poor and act like they're entirely unusable if the 'weather turns nasty', while not recognising that all seasons are sub optimal in terms of wear, feeling and performance if you're not reasonably steady on them, particularly in the summer. That'll suit some more than others. All tyres involve some form of compromise.

 

[dgl]

We just use the same Falken Sincera/Ziex tyres all year, as they seem to be the cheapest decent tyres, but then being on the South coast it's a bit milder and so a winter tyre is of less importance.

CAR/SUV TYRES

Teaser Text EN

www.falkentyre.com

One interesting we did hear our old tyre place say to one customer is that the reason his tyres had not lasted was because the previous tyre place (a Kwik fit) had fitted tyres for the wrong brand of vehicle, and that certain tyres have brand specific versions, fit the wrong one and they'll wear quicker. We don't have any reason to dispute that as they were a decent place, and are annoyed that they've gone out of business, esp. as to get the same tyres locally means going to a chain place further away.

 

[Ediswan]

When I switched to Michelin Cross Climate, I didn't notice any difference to dry/summer driving. In wet weather, they are noticeably better, especially where there is standing water. Can't comment on serious snow, there hasn't been any since I changed. Wear is a low priority, I would rather replace tyres a bit more often than crash.

 

[the sniper]

When I switched to Michelin Cross Climate, I didn't notice any difference to dry/summer driving. In wet weather, they are noticeably better, especially where there is standing water. Can't comment on serious snow, there hasn't been any since I changed. Wear is a low priority, I would rather replace tyres a bit more often than crash.

I think they're the best option for many people, good all seasons in particular, but the idea that summer tyres are just for those 'obsessed with shaving a tenth of a second off a lap time on a warm day' is rather ridiculous.

 

[Ediswan]

Would a typical UK tyre be considered a summer tyre in mainland/alpine Europe, or are they already a form of 'all season' compromise ?

When we were on a summer trip to Austria, one of our cars suffered a puncture that could not be repaired. The local tyre shop apologised that it would take two days to source a replacement. To them, the tyre was a pointless compromise, neither summer nor winter, so nobody in the country stocked it.

 

[the sniper]

Would a typical UK tyre be considered a summer tyre in mainland/alpine Europe, or are they already a form of 'all season' compromise ?

I imagine the tyres most typically fitted in the UK are Summer ones, which is what they'd consider Summer ones too.

 

[Ediswan]

I imagine the tyres most typically fitted in the UK are Summer ones, which is what they'd consider Summer ones too.

Your quote ommited the second part of my post, which suggested otherwise.

 

[JamesT]

That's ridiculous. By that logic, do I have to fit the exact make and model of tyre that's fitted on the car as new to be covered by my insurance as that's the tyre that's 'recommended' by the manufacturer?

And for what it's worth, a quick check of my handbook says:


So I think it's crazy to suggest that fitting more appropriate tyres for the conditions is unprofessional or risks invalidating your insurance!

You may consider it crazy, but it can be a thing. https://www.abi.org.uk/products-and...right-insurance/motor-insurance/winter-tyres/ links to a document listing the position of many UK insurers. Although most don’t care, some do require prior notification that you’re switching to winter tyres and others place conditions such as being of a type supplied by the manufacturer.

 

[the sniper]

Your quote ommited the second part of my post, which suggested otherwise.

So you're saying you thought you had a Summer tyre, but they thought it was an All Season? What tyre was it?

There are a wide variety of Summer tyres available which can have very different tread patterns depending on what the manufacturer was trying to optimise them for. I can imagine a Summer tyre optimised to clear water in mild/wet countries sold here may not be regularly stocked in countries where Winter tyres are needed/required and summers are dryer, particularly if the compound isn't suited to colder conditions. Due to the latter it may not be suitable to consider/market it as an All Season though, but it might look a bit like one.

 

[90019]

Difficult to tell but picture 3 looks like its possibly the top of a puncture repair.

Photo 3 is definitely a puncture repair plug.

Just that plug alone would be enough for me to refuse the tyres and have them removed from the car, as no reputable tyre shop would ever plug a tyre that close to the sidewall.

 

[paul1609]

Photo 3 is definitely a puncture repair plug.

Just that plug alone would be enough for me to refuse the tyres and have them removed from the car, as no reputable tyre shop would ever plug a tyre that close to the sidewall.

To be honest I wouldnt accept any "new" tyre with a puncture repair. The OP has done the right thing imho but you have to be careful handing out opinions on tyre conditions on grainy photos on trainspotters forums too.