New crossing the Line procedure?

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Trainer2

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DB rep tells us ALL shunters will need to phone signal box to cross the lines if they are not blocked to get permission to cross them!

How it works? Phone up the box (shout across!), get a window of time to cross, stay on phone while crossing and tell them when your over.

Comes in later this year.

Union rep off this week to ask about it.

I don’t think the H&S brigade have thought this idea through.

Do any of the NR signallers have more details?
 
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R

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Crossing the line is in the rules already, TS1 13.7 (if I remember rightly)

I seem to recall it was trialed at Wakefield Kirkgate and deemed a success. It basically makes it akin to crossing at a foot crossing -

The specific crossing point must be approved for use, it’s a marked/known location on the panel so easy to check, and staying on the phone means no need for full paperwork, line blocks, call backs etc just a clear understanding and constant communication.
 

PeterJ

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Already available to anyone working COSS or IWA. Must be pre planned, has to be by mobile phone and you have to stay on the phone line but keep the phone down by your side. Used by patrollers to cross red zone prohibited structures like bridges safely
 

iamdeaf

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DB rep tells us ALL shunters will need to phone signal box to cross the lines if they are not blocked to get permission to cross them!

How it works? Phone up the box (shout across!), get a window of time to cross, stay on phone while crossing and tell them when your over.

Comes in later this year.

Union rep off this week to ask about it.

I don’t think the H&S brigade have thought this idea through.

Do any of the NR signallers have more details?
DB ? is that db cargo ?
 

tiptoptaff

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In future, I'd suggest querying rulebook updates with your management rather than an internet forum
 

alf

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In future, I'd suggest querying rulebook updates with your management rather than an internet forum
Why?
I found this interesting & thought provoking.
This forum is exactly the right place to discuss it.
It doesn’t prevent the poster from also contacting his rep
& manager.
Best wishes trainer 2.
 

Tomnick

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I think the rep might have got the wrong end of the stick.

If I'm not mistaken, the purpose of the new procedure is to make it easier to cross the line where a line blockage would previously have been required - so it can be done with a tighter margin available, and it also reduces the signalman's workload.

If you didn't need a line blockage to cross the line previously, then (again, if I'm not mistaken!) you won't need to use the new procedure either.
 

alxndr

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I think the rep might have got the wrong end of the stick.

If I'm not mistaken, the purpose of the new procedure is to make it easier to cross the line where a line blockage would previously have been required - so it can be done with a tighter margin available, and it also reduces the signalman's workload.

If you didn't need a line blockage to cross the line previously, then (again, if I'm not mistaken!) you won't need to use the new procedure either.
Local rules may vary. Our area are losing the ability to cross the line "red zone" at all later this year, it has to either be blocked or the crossing the line procedure has to be used. It's going to be a nightmare for all concerned.
 

Trainer2

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In future, I'd suggest querying rulebook updates with your management rather than an internet forum
Hi, I can’t find it in the rule book!
Mind you the book I have to hand is Dec 2017, may need a refresh!

One further question if I may?
I phone up the box, I ask them if I can cross, I stay on the phone to them while crossing. What happens if I fall over or drop the phone or whatever? The signaller does not need that headache.

Bloody nightmare for those lads and lasses maintaining the railway if they have to phone up every time to cross the line.
Every rule change NR dream up makes the railway less productive !
 

GuyGibsonVC

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There are 81 in place across the North of the ECML and certain criteria have to met.

The CTLP has to be a fixed asset that can be seen on the panel by the signaller.

90 seconds warning.

Only to used to cross a line and with hand tools only. No heavy plant.

Must have been briefed on the procedure.

Must stay on the phone when crossing.

These locations have all been risk assessed and signed off by both Maintenance and Ops.

These massively free up line blockage capacity on the panel, reduce planner workload and have been good for engagement with the front line staff.

They were in the December update of the rulebook but, as usual, the RMT want to have their say and there have been a few discussions about them.
 
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Hi, I can’t find it in the rule book!
Mind you the book I have to hand is Dec 2017, may need a refresh!

One further question if I may?
I phone up the box, I ask them if I can cross, I stay on the phone to them while crossing. What happens if I fall over or drop the phone or whatever? The signaller does not need that headache.
Well, your question is answered in the rule book so maybe time you get an updated one.

If loss of comms, or obviously failure to cross safely such as falling, signaller treats it like a user not calling back at a level crossing and will caution trains through the area until confirmed the crossing point is clear.

For very understandable reasons NR are trying to get away from all red zone working and unprotected crossing of the line is an easy thing to put a stop to.

I must say a shunter in a yard isn’t a time mentioned in the rule book version of the procedure though so definitely worth a chat with a manager.
 

SignallerJohn

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Hi, I can’t find it in the rule book!
Mind you the book I have to hand is Dec 2017, may need a refresh!

One further question if I may?
I phone up the box, I ask them if I can cross, I stay on the phone to them while crossing. What happens if I fall over or drop the phone or whatever? The signaller does not need that headache.

Bloody nightmare for those lads and lasses maintaining the railway if they have to phone up every time to cross the line.
Every rule change NR dream up makes the railway less productive !
First of all, until now you didn’t know it existed or you’ve never used the CTLP so how can you say if it is or isn’t effective lol? It’s been trialled for at least 2 years now so how are you making an absolute saying it’s making the railway less productive?

Do you think that staff can just cross the line without a safe system of work in place..?

The headache comes from trying to give a COSS a line blockage on 4 lines in peak traffic, trust me on that. And to be clear, if you dropped your phone, I would calmly put the signals to danger that protect where you are looking to cross. I would then speak to a driver, inform them of what’s happened and caution them through the section.

There are ‘ what ifs’ for everything I do in my job, and you would never ever run a train normally if you thought about them all the time.
 

pdeaves

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I must say a shunter in a yard isn’t a time mentioned in the rule book version of the procedure
A yard is generally unsignalled, no? In which case, calling a signaller in a yard context cannot be productive or helpful. Perhaps the original person's conversation was intended that shunters are not (or will not be) exempt from the main line procedure that everyone else uses.
 

Trainer2

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Yes pdeaves, I think the matter will be raised this week and hopefully clarity (and common sense) can be achieved!
 

Dan17H

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It's being taught to new COSS's I believe, although not in use in Southern area's yet.

I'm due a COSS recert this year so will see how it pans out, would be very beneficial for my sort of work.
 
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