New EMU's for London Midland?

[Fuzzy Logic]

I found this interesting little document whilst browsing this morning.

http://www.publictenders.net/module...ticle&sid=80997&newlang=eng&topic=197&catid=0

It seems to indicate that LM intend to receive "between 40 and 120" EMU vehicles, delivery commencing May 2011. Mention is made of the units being 100 mph capable, used on a combination of inner and outer commuter services (with 1/3 , 2/3 door positioning) and being a mixture of 3 and 4 car units which are preferably compatible with LM's existing fleet.

Is it me, or does this sound like going through the motions to get more Desiros in to replace their 323's and the 321's that will be remaining?

 

[jopsuk]

Whilst it's out to tender, so other train suppliers will have to be considered, lets be honest- what are the chances of the winner NOT being German? Whilst I'm sure Bombardier could, in theory, produce something interoperable with the Desiros, it surely could never be as compatible as more of the same?

 

[350401]

That would make sense - it would mean that LM have a Desiro based fleet, as the EMU's are likely to be similar to the 350s just arriving. It also means that Northern gain all of LM's 323's, and so have a uniform fleet of EMU's.

Given NT are desperately short of EMU's and are having to run EMU services with Diesels then it can only be a good thing. The only problem I can see is that some stations platforms are too short to fit 6-car trains and that 323's lack SDO, so they could not be doubled up at rush hour, which is needed on some services (18.08 to Crewe for example, as well as a few of the Hazel Grove trains). Of course it means that all the services currently run as 2x142 or 150 can return to 323 operation, increasing capacity and freeing DMU's for strengthening other services.

 

[paul1609]

Whilst it's out to tender, so other train suppliers will have to be considered, lets be honest- what are the chances of the winner NOT being German? Whilst I'm sure Bombardier could, in theory, produce something interoperable with the Desiros, it surely could never be as compatible as more of the same?

I think that the collapse of the Pound against the Euro means that Desiros are now very expensive. I can see the order going elsewhere tbh.

 

[F Great Eastern]

The sensible choice for passengers from a service point of view, along with reliability from a TOC point of view, would be Desiros.

However the sensible choice from an economic point of view would be Electrostars.

So what will win, service or cost, that wil ldictate what gets ordered.

 

[Dave R]

I heard that Northern were getting new or cascaded EMUs and that all Northern's 323s are going to be transferred to London Midland so more services could be 6-car, not sure if this is true though

 

[350401]

Yep, that was the original plan, and it may still happen. However, rumour is now that northern are getting all LM's 323's in order for them to run some services as 6-car, to restore Picc-Hazel Grove to EMU operation, and in preparation for infill electrification between Picc and Preston in particular. But all is rumour at the moment, so can't be sure.

However, I have noticed that NT have started re-paintings the 323s again - I think is 323238 that is now in NT colours too? This meaning that they are more confident of retaining them? Also I wouldn't mind NT getting the LM 323's as they've been refurbished inside!

 

[Daimler]

More Desiros are what's needed - a nice homogenous fleet (and I prefer them to Electrostars!).

On a slightly different note, why are London Midland so slow at replacing the 321s with new Desiros? There are now twice as many 350/2s available as there were at the time of the introduction of the new timetable and hardly anything's changed, it would seem.

I'm fed up with 321s!

 

[Pumbaa]

The new 350/2s are standing in for the /1s, which are standing in for the 377/2s. Admittedly it's only 4 a day, but LM love any excuse. I've noticed more and more services going to /2s, but I still think they aren't doing a good job of keeping the /1s for Liverpool - Brum and Crewe - London services, the two subclasses are ending up everywhere, which is a shame!

 

[Daimler]

Yeah, most trains I take with 350s (usually Tring/Milton Keynes trains) have been /1s, whereas I've seen Crewe services with /2s several times.

I'm also puzzled by their diagramming for Birmingham services. According to the timetable, you can reserve seats on these, but several Birminghams are operated by 321s, which have no seat numbers or any reservation facilities at all (I don't think). Meanwhile, Tring/Milton Keynes/Northampton trains are being operated by 350s - especially those that go non-stop to Milton Keynes .

EDIT: Oooh, I'm now a 'customer assistant'!

 

[MCR247]

Yeah, most trains I take with 350s (usually Tring/Milton Keynes trains) have been /1s, whereas I've seen Crewe services with /2s several times.

I'm also puzzled by their diagramming for Birmingham services. According to the timetable, you can reserve seats on these, but several Birminghams are operated by 321s, which have no seat numbers or any reservation facilities at all (I don't think). Meanwhile, Tring/Milton Keynes/Northampton trains are being operated by 350s - especially those that go non-stop to Milton Keynes .

EDIT: Oooh, I'm now a 'customer assistant'!

you can reserve on LM?? I thought GoVia didnt reserve seats, like on NSR & SouthEastern

 

[25322]

I had reserved seats when i went london area a few weeks ago. Didn;t sit in them as I needed a table which was free just in front of me so i uumped seats.

 

[Daimler]

you can reserve on LM?? I thought GoVia didnt reserve seats, like on NSR & SouthEastern

Only on London - Birmingham, London - Crewe and Birmingham - Liverpool trains, I think.

 

[Pumbaa]

you can reserve on LM?? I thought GoVia didnt reserve seats, like on NSR & SouthEastern

You can reserve seats on the Brighton express trains, and on express services to Portsmouth, Southampton, Chichester etc.

 

[MCR247]

You can reserve seats on the Brighton express trains, and on express services to Portsmouth, Southampton, Chichester etc.

Can you? I havent noticed any seat numbers before. Need to look more carefully! :roll:

 

[87015]

Can you? I havent noticed any seat numbers before. Need to look more carefully! :roll:

If same as LM will just no reservation just mega cheap AP fares. "Coach * Seat **" qutoted on reservation ticket, sit where you want, pretty good if you ask me.

 

[MCR247]

sorry to go off topic, but how can you reserve seats on southern if there is like a Coach A its just Coach 1 of 4 etc

 

[mathmo]

I had a reservation with coach and seat specified on LM Birmingham - Liverpool just before Christmas! I wish more AP tickets wouldn't specify the seat - it's just unnecessary complexity, and I normally prefer to sit elsewhere.

 

[Danielo]

you can reserve on LM?? I thought GoVia didnt reserve seats, like on NSR & SouthEastern

You can certainly reserve seats on LM. I often get the 18.24 from Euston to Crewe (I get off at H&W), and that always has plenty of reserved seats from Euston. What's funny is the look of bemused commuters being asked to move by other passnegers who have had the seats reserved. They seem not to notice the seat reservation cards on the seats.