New guided buses to Leigh from April

[WatcherZero]

First changed some of their bus routes to terminate at that park and ride side to avoid duplication of services in to Manchester when they won the contract. Makes some of their existing operations more efficient as they are piggybacking on the bus routes capacity though forces passengers to change. Its probably these you are seeing rather than P&R car park users.

 

[AB93]

First changed some of their bus routes to terminate at that park and ride side to avoid duplication of services in to Manchester when they won the contract. Makes some of their existing operations more efficient as they are piggybacking on the bus routes capacity though forces passengers to change. Its probably these you are seeing rather than P&R car park users.

No they didn't - no First routes terminate there. Only the Stagecoach 32 does.

 

[WatcherZero]

First taking a lot of flak on twitter over last month or two about dozens of people being left waiting every morning because buses are too full to board. They've said they are pressing their standby buses in to service for extra capacity but that's only a short term fix as they aren't to the same quality spec so looks like they will have to order more buses and increase the frequency.

 

[Bletchleyite]

First taking a lot of flak on twitter over last month or two about dozens of people being left waiting every morning because buses are too full to board. They've said they are pressing their standby buses in to service for extra capacity but that's only a short term fix as they aren't to the same quality spec so looks like they will have to order more buses and increase the frequency.

At least that's an easy and relatively cheap thing to do compared with a train.

 

[KendalKing]

First taking a lot of flak on twitter over last month or two about dozens of people being left waiting every morning because buses are too full to board. They've said they are pressing their standby buses in to service for extra capacity but that's only a short term fix as they aren't to the same quality spec so looks like they will have to order more buses and increase the frequency.

There are two more buses on order, which are due to be delivered in the next couple of months.

 

[Bungle965]

There are two more buses on order, which are due to be delivered in the next couple of months.

I assume they are the same type as they already have?
Sam

 

[KendalKing]

I assume they are the same type as they already have?
Sam

I would thought so, with them due to be numbered 39257 & 39258.

 

[Bungle965]

I would thought so, with them due to be numbered 39257 & 39258.

Cheers.
Sam

 

[nerd]

from tom harrison on thenorthwestbusblog


http://thenorthwestbusblog.co.uk/tomharrison/more-journeys-announced-vantage-busway/

900,000 since April translates to approximately 2m per year. Which was the long-term annual patronage target for scheme as proposed 10 years ago; (just Leigh into Manchester city centre; before the additon of the Atherton link, and the throughroute to MRI).

But the overall service appears to be envisaged still as a timetabled 4 bph to both Leigh and Atherton through the day, but with doubled peakbuster vehicles to give extra capacity for highly congested times. As I undestand it, the two buses added in recent weeks are standard doubled-deck Volvo units, but with guidewheels. First are now proposing extra non-guidewheel units on the V1 and V2 services as peakbusters, only as far as Newearth Road.

I would guess that minimum separation standards effectively prevent peakbusters running over the guided busway sections.

First Manchester is increasing the number of journeys on the Vantage Busway as the total numbers using the popular service breaks 900,000, since the launch in April. In response to customer demand, the bus operator will add two extra buses from this week, providing more seats at busy peak times.

The Busway services are being delivered in partnership with TfGM, Wigan Council, Salford City Council, Manchester City Council and First Manchester, and since the introduction in April, the Busway has become increasingly popular with commuters travelling into Manchester and Salford.

In response to this, First Manchester has been reviewing options to allow the service to comfortably carry the increased number of customers, and has recently changed timetables to create more seats during peak times, and the business has also added two extra buses, which allows First Manchester to make more journeys each day.

In addition to this news, First Manchester will be adding five further buses in January 2017, in order to prepare for the extension of the route and to continue to provide increased capacity for the service.

Ian Humphreys, Head of Commercial for First Manchester said: “Over 900,000 customer journeys have been completed since Vantage launched on 3rd April, which is incredible. Vantage has become increasingly popular, which has resulted in a high demand for the service during certain times of the day, but we would like to reassure customers that we are reviewing the service every week to ensure there are more seats available during peak times.

“As a short-term solution, we have added extra journeys, over and above the specified timetable, in order to accommodate the increased number of customers. These journeys will be available during peak times, and will use Vantage buses where possible, but some conventional buses will be used in some instances.

“We will also be introducing five new vehicles in the New Year, which will aim to support increased capacity, as well as to assist with proposed route extensions.

“We would like to thank our customers for embracing Vantage, and for their patience whilst we endeavour to continue to provide a comfortable and safe journey for all passengers.”

Councillor Andrew Fender, Chair of the TfGM Committee, said: “By investing in innovative infrastructure and insisting on a premium standard of bus we’ve created a transport connection of real value and importance. The number of people benefiting from what’s been provided continues to grow and I am delighted to see our investment being so quickly rewarded.

“We and First Manchester want that success to continue and are in daily contact regarding the scale of these current issues and to identify the best solutions to resolve them.”

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not clear why there would be minimum separation standards - it's a road with braking working the same way as any other road (except I guess you can't swerve).

As for extra buses...just imagine the railway meeting with that kind of success and throwing a few extra DMUs on at that kind of notice!

 

[nerd]

I'm not clear why there would be minimum separation standards - it's a road with braking working the same way as any other road (except I guess you can't swerve).

As for extra buses...just imagine the railway meeting with that kind of success and throwing a few extra DMUs on at that kind of notice!

Cambridgeshire busway requires a minimum separation along the guided section of 500m

Same seems to apply on the Leigh-Salford busway; if a bus is at a stop along the busway section, any following bus waits several hundred metres back. Unlike a tram, where tailgating is regular practice.

 

[WatcherZero]

The only thing it should be affecting is the traffic lights at priority junctions.

They may just be under orders to avoid bunching.

 

[Bungle965]

First have confirmed that new buses will be arriving January, they also confirmed that they will be adding 2 journeys towards Manchester in the morning peak.
Will post more details later unless someone beats me to it!
Sam

 

[Andyh82]

As for extra buses...just imagine the railway meeting with that kind of success and throwing a few extra DMUs on at that kind of notice!

Surely passengers should be made to stand and be left behind at bus stops for about 5 years and then and only then, some life expired old single decks cascaded from another area should be drafted in, still painted in a previous owners livery!

 

[WatcherZero]

First have confirmed that new buses will be arriving January, they also confirmed that they will be adding 2 journeys towards Manchester in the morning peak.
Will post more details later unless someone beats me to it!
Sam

Something like 8am from Leigh and 8:04am from Newearth Road along with an extra from Manchester in the evening. Because they are using the standby vehicles for this I think they are at the moment being flexible with the timing and only operating when fleet availability allows (i.e. none of the regulars out of action requiring the standby to sub normal timetable) and so are confirming the days times every morning.

 

[Bungle965]

Something like 8am from Leigh and 8:04am from Newearth Road along with an extra from Manchester in the evening. Because they are using the standby vehicles for this I think they are at the moment being flexible with the timing and only operating when fleet availability allows (i.e. none of the regulars out of action requiring the standby to sub normal timetable) and so are confirming the days times every morning.

I was just about to post, yes that was exactly it. Thanks
Sam

 

[nerd]

Two million passengers in the first 12 months is astonishing for a new bus service. It implies that the busway exceeded its 5-year patronage growth target in its first year; and all while the extension across town to the Uni and MRI has yet to open.

https://www.wigan.gov.uk/News/Artic...ovide-early-birthday-gift-for-the-busway.aspx

Transport bosses are celebrating an early birthday present for the North West’s first guided busway as passenger numbers hit the two million mark.
Figures released today by First, which operates the ‘Vantage’ service of specially adapted buses along the guideway, connecting with Manchester city centre, show that more than two million passengers have used the service since it started last April.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Two million passengers in the first 12 months is astonishing for a new bus service. It implies that the busway exceeded its 5-year patronage growth target in its first year; and all while the extension across town to the Uni and MRI has yet to open.

https://www.wigan.gov.uk/News/Artic...ovide-early-birthday-gift-for-the-busway.aspx

This information must come as an annoyance to all those who wanted the return of a heavy rail service instead.

 

[yorksrob]

This information must come as an annoyance to all those who wanted the return of a heavy rail service instead.

Its a shame if it makes rail re-instatements less likely.

That said, it does illustrate the inadequacy of Leigh's previous public transport system. Perhaps a railway would have exceeded its growth target by as much or even more !

 

[freetoview33]

Its a shame if it makes rail re-instatements less likely.

That said, it does illustrate the inadequacy of Leigh's previous public transport system. Perhaps a railway would have exceeded its growth target by as much or even more !

You would have thought so.

 

[miami]

Its a shame if it makes rail re-instatements less likely.

That said, it does illustrate the inadequacy of Leigh's previous public transport system. Perhaps a railway would have exceeded its growth target by as much or even more !

What is the frequency of the new bus service? How close to where people are does it go, and how many stops does it make, in comparision to a heavy rail system?

There appears to be a service every 5 minutes. There appears to be a large number of people living within a few hundered yards of a bus stop.

Are there any heavy rail lines that meet that frequency in Manchester? With stations with as many people?

What is the benefit of a heavy rail system over a guided bus line?

 

[nerd]

What is the frequency of the new bus service? How close to where people are does it go, and how many stops does it make, in comparision to a heavy rail system?

There appears to be a service every 5 minutes. There appears to be a large number of people living within a few hundered yards of a bus stop.

Are there any heavy rail lines that meet that frequency in Manchester? With stations with as many people?

What is the benefit of a heavy rail system over a guided bus line?

Atherton now has both a guided bus and a rail service; currently the bus runs 4 services per hour, and the rail line twice an hour; but I understand that the current franchise intends the rail service to increase to 4 per hour as well.

Currently, the bus seems to have been taking business from the train; but it will be interesting to see whether the train will win back custom if and when frequency improves. My guess is tha the convenience of a service that runs through the middle of Manchester and on to the Uni and MRI, will continue to win out over a rail service that still leaves passengers with a bit of a walk, or another bus ride. But either train or bus would appear to beat the car option (in peak periods). Once you factor in the time taken to find a central parking space, and then walk from there to your destination, only those with whose choices are seriously constrained would drive.

 

[yorksrob]

I think the train option at Atherton has the advantage of going to Victoria, which is very useful for the major shopping area of Manchester.

If the proposed train service from Atherton were two to Vic and two to Pic it would then pick up a number of additional onward connections, including to London, however I believe this isn't the case.

It has to be said, the bus station in Leigh is reasonably well sited (as was the railway one before closure).

 

[shredder1]

What is the frequency of the new bus service? How close to where people are does it go, and how many stops does it make, in comparision to a heavy rail system?

There appears to be a service every 5 minutes. There appears to be a large number of people living within a few hundered yards of a bus stop.

Are there any heavy rail lines that meet that frequency in Manchester? With stations with as many people?

What is the benefit of a heavy rail system over a guided bus line?

Or an extension of Metrolink?

 

[yorksrob]

Atherton now has both a guided bus and a rail service; currently the bus runs 4 services per hour, and the rail line twice an hour; but I understand that the current franchise intends the rail service to increase to 4 per hour as well.

Currently, the bus seems to have been taking business from the train; but it will be interesting to see whether the train will win back custom if and when frequency improves. My guess is tha the convenience of a service that runs through the middle of Manchester and on to the Uni and MRI, will continue to win out over a rail service that still leaves passengers with a bit of a walk, or another bus ride. But either train or bus would appear to beat the car option (in peak periods). Once you factor in the time taken to find a central parking space, and then walk from there to your destination, only those with whose choices are seriously constrained would drive.

Also, the guided bus and train services serve different parts of Atherton, so I would have thought that an increased rail frequency will attract passengers from the nearer side of town.

 

[nerd]

I think the train option at Atherton has the advantage of going to Victoria, which is very useful for the major shopping area of Manchester.

If the proposed train service from Atherton were two to Vic and two to Pic it would then pick up a number of additional onward connections, including to London, however I believe this isn't the case.

It has to be said, the bus station in Leigh is reasonably well sited (as was the railway one before closure).

The busway from Atherton seems to be doing rather better business than rail at the weekend and off-peak.

 

[yorksrob]

The busway from Atherton seems to be doing rather better business than rail at the weekend and off-peak.

I've been catching the train to Atherton fairly regularly on Saturdays for some years now, and I can't say as I've noticed any discernable drop off in passenger usage since the busway opened.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

What is the benefit of a heavy rail system over a guided bus line?

Loss of identity - a town on the rail map is a town people hear of. Leigh is just a bus stop near Manchester.

 

[KendalKing]

What is the frequency of the new bus service? How close to where people are does it go, and how many stops does it make, in comparision to a heavy rail system?

There appears to be a service every 5 minutes. There appears to be a large number of people living within a few hundered yards of a bus stop.

Are there any heavy rail lines that meet that frequency in Manchester? With stations with as many people?

What is the benefit of a heavy rail system over a guided bus line?

How many Heavy Rail or Light Rail services run every 5-minutes?

 

[miami]

How many Heavy Rail or Light Rail services run every 5-minutes?

Metrolink runs at about that frequency on most edges (and far higher in the core).

Thameslink runs at that, crossrail too.