New law will enshrine ‘right’ of commuters to minimum service during strikes, says Grant Shapps

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by CentralTrainer, 17 Dec 2019.

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  1. DT611

    DT611 Member

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    It's not though.
    All of these can cause the same or worse problems then striking. Disruption, canceled services, etc.
    So, surely then they should also be included for having minimum levels of service? Otherwise it is very clear that this actually isn't about giving a commuter the right to get a minimum service, but a politically motivated attempt to stop rail staff from withdrawing their labor so as to eradicate their terms and conditions and the unions who work to protect them, which no doubt it actually is in reality, when we examine the record of the conservative party when they have had majorities.
     
    Last edited: 17 Dec 2019
  2. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    That's Inner London and article you linked to states there are 1.946 million jobs in Inner London. So about a million people earn more than £34,473 - and about a million earn less.

    Figures are somewhat skewed by the City of London where the median annual salary is £51,952 and Tower Hamlets (which covers the Canary Wharf district) where it is £44,380.
     
  3. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Is it correct that the emergency services are restricted regarding strikes in a similar way? Now obviously strikes within those services could directly impact preservation of life, as in people could be ill, in danger, or worse, as a direct result of a days strike.

    That wage figure for the city quoted above actually sounds quite low considering its a financial district? All these reports during the credit crunch referring to bankers earning hundreds of thousands and big bonuses etc? Or do workers in living wage service industries in the area such as cafes etc bring the median down?
     
    Last edited: 18 Dec 2019
  4. reb0118

    reb0118 Established Member Fares Advisor

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    I believe that there was a bridge strike today. What has Boris got up his sleeve to combat that?
     
  5. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    I think only the Police are legally unable to strike, or be in a union. I believe that's because they are employed in a bizarre way which doesn't afford them the same employment rights as most others, I'd assume the armed forces are in a similar position.

    NHS and Fire can strike but I think they endeavor to come to an agreement on services to be provided. Although from what I remember (only being 11 at the time) the 2002 FBU Strike was an all out affair.
     
  6. pt_mad

    pt_mad Established Member

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    Although isn't there something similar called the police federation?
     
  7. TheEdge

    TheEdge Established Member

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    Yes, it provides all the day to day functions of a trade union to its members but it isn't a union and it very specifically can't call strikes.
     
  8. AntoniC

    AntoniC Member

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    Prison Officers cant strike either , the Courts held that they hold that they hold the same office as a Constable and therefore cant strike.
     
  9. Mintona

    Mintona Established Member

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    I’ve been on the railway nearly 12 years and never been as much as balloted. Maybe I’ve been lucky. But it’s nice to know the option is there if we need it. Especially with recent pension news.
     
  10. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Whilst it is true that the RMT, publicly at least need to come out of the 1980s, what the government is proposing in it's current form is nothing but bluster. As these very forums have shown time and again, the network is basically run on employer T&Cs and a lot of staff goodwill. Simply trying to legislate against future industrial action rather than actually trying to solve the reasons for employer-employee disputes is typical Conservative mismanagement. All this will achieve is loss of that said goodwill, leading to staff working only to contracted conditions & probably a higher turnover rate in the long run. Without the government coming to meet the unions half way, and the unions reciprocating this will be ending badly.

    With this news, I am going to make plans to work from home a lot more as I am one of the lucky ones that now can.
     
  11. carriageline

    carriageline Established Member

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    I do sometimes think the RMT is in an “unfair” (wrong word choice, but I can’t think of a better one!) position.

    They represent a variety of different grades, all with different job roles and responsibilities.

    These grades are employed by a huge amount of different companies.

    They cover the width and breadth of the country.

    Since I’ve been on the railway, teachers and postal workers have been on strike more than I have, and I’ve never been on strike!
     
  12. Carlisle

    Carlisle Established Member

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    That’s already happened through various channels over the last 5 years.,, but it’s proved largely impossible due to the RMT continually moving the goalposts by reciprocating one day then introducing new red lines shortly afterwards.
     
    Last edited: 18 Dec 2019
  13. Bantamzen

    Bantamzen Established Member

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    Well it does need both sides to move. The RMT may be moving the goalposts, but so are the DfT, the Northern DOO dispute being one recent example.
     
  14. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    I was responding to a poster who was a signaller, and quite correctly said he had never been on strike. However, had the RMT done their ballot correctly there would have been a national signallers’ strike in April 2010. Of course that doesn’t mean that the RMT is inept across the board. There are some very good union reps in the RMT.

    What I will say is that, in my experience, other unions’ reps were generally better than those of the RMT. The latter tended to be more aggressive, and less willing to reach agreement (or even negotiate) than other unions. Some appeared to think themselves ‘untouchable’ as reps and made themselves deeply unpopular with the colleagues they were meant to represent. Just my experience of course.
     
  15. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Certainly legislating that lorries (as so often it's lorries) had to make use of appropriate sat nav as well as harsher penalties on driver and haulier would probably go a long way to helping to reduce delays and cancellations.

    My mother is a fairly infrequent traveller with Northern (a boogeyman for strikes) and yet her one delay of note with them was caused by a lorry hitting a bridge not strike action.

    I wonder if anyone has ever done a piece of research to calculate the delay minutes and cancellations of strike action versus other reasons for disruptions? I can't help but suspect it may well show that there are other areas which could be the focus of action to improve the lot of comutters than strike action....
     
  16. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    Fair enough. However I’ve never been on strike, nor ballotted, in 30 years. And of my non-railway friends, (teachers excepted), I don’t know anyone who has ever been on strike. There’s really very few people who do go on strike.

    It’s the law of small numbers of course, but I can’t help feel that the rail industry attracts a larger share of action than most others, and it really, really isn’t a bad employer!
     
  17. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    There’s rarely recorded delay minutes due to strike action - you can’t delay a train that doesnt run.

    There is however some evidence that when there is a dispute in progress the number of minor, unexplained delays shoots up. I know if one TOC in a prolonged dispute that saw the number of delay incidents per day almost halve the day after the action was suspended. There is no doubt in my mind that this factor is contributing to the current poor showing of SWR and LNWR. (There are othe4 factors, of course).


    One factor in all of this is that LU seems to have a high rate of ballots and action, and of course being in London that is more obvious to MPs. I do think the new LU boss will make a difference here.
     
  18. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Well that's why it'd be a piece of research! You'd have to come up with some way of measuring the scale of disruption in a quantifible way! :lol:

    As a rough and ready measure I'd suggest some sort of comparison against the long term WTT with what was actually provided.
     
  19. LowLevel

    LowLevel Established Member

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    Of course. If you have good will you muddle along. If you're in dispute it usually gets withdrawn on both sides (see GTR cancelling it's employee's car park passes). It's amazing how long some things can take if you do them precisely to the book.
     
  20. ExRes

    ExRes Established Member

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    While I don't think that even the most ardent of the anti Boris brigade would hold him to blame for a stupid and lazy lorry/bus driver, I would hope that something long overdue will be done and that the guilty party and their employer will be forced to pay the actual costs of a bridge collision, once the vehicle insurers started to receive the bills they would be quick to pass that on in premium increases which may, just may, tempt the lorry/bus operators into employing drivers with brains, personally I see no downsides to holding the drivers to blame and if they knew their licences were to be permanently cancelled it might help with their concentration, result, good for road users, safer for bus passengers, reduction of delays for rail passengers
     
  21. Raul_Duke

    Raul_Duke Member

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    Exactly this.

    2 minutes to set up a cab each time. Taking your full walking time everywhere including to and from your PNB.

    “Do you mind if we move your job tomorrow to avoid a cancellation?”

    And that’s before you get into what happens during disruption and going over your hours.

    I think people would be surprised how much effort most staff will put into making up delay time, until they stop doing it.
     
  22. OneOffDave

    OneOffDave Member

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    One thing that might happen would be unions putting their assets outside of the UK to prevent the UK courts from seizing them. Also I can see a significant increase in work to rule
     
  23. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    I would imagine that the people blaming this on the "evil Tories" are the same people who often say "why dont we do things more like they do in Europe?"

    Do you know hoe they enforce it in these countries? Is the operator fined, and then expected to recover money from the union? Or do they get a court order to block any strike?
     
  24. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    I have never known a supermarket closed due to a strike.
     
  25. Raul_Duke

    Raul_Duke Member

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    And look at how employees are consequently treated.
     
  26. mrcheek

    mrcheek Established Member

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    Fairly well I would think, many of the staff in the supermarkets I visit have been there for years, and seem happy.
     
  27. Raul_Duke

    Raul_Duke Member

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    They probably seem happy because if not they are disciplined.

    Just because you are happy to live in Stockholm-syndrome induced serfdom to your employer doesn't mean everyone else is....
     
  28. PR1Berske

    PR1Berske On Moderation

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    Or perhaps they're genuinely happy?
     
  29. ExRes

    ExRes Established Member

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    It's a shame that shop workers aren't able to join a union as railway employees are, an RMT type union would be able to tell them that they don't need to look happy at work
     
  30. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    It serves the Prime Minister's interest for this to go ahead with lots of fuss. It means that the public who use the railway will turn their ire for it's shockingly poor performance more to the trade unions than to him and his government.

    All I can say is, if you're unhappy about this, I hope to god that 100% of you who were eligible to cast a vote for an Opposition party (preferably one that had a good chance of winning).

    Whether or not the measure has any impact on the jobs of the actual staff is totally irrelevant, the Prime Minister does not care about that at all. And far worse is to come.
     
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