New Mills Central landslip - 6 week closure

[yorksrob]

Autumn - ouch. Thank goodness there are diversionary routes !

 

[BingMan]

Sure, the issue with Northern RRBs is that often they just get what they're given. I used to commute on the Buxton line and there was a proper motley collection that turned out whenever the line was shut.
We nearly got stuck on a lane near Dove Holes station with a bus that was significantly oversized for the job.

Why don't the TOCs, or perhaps Railtrack, have their own fleet of buses operated by people who know the area.
High Peak buses have no difficulty running services around this area. To get to Chinley station you need a small single decker. Not the RRB I saw stuck there last week: a 100 seater coach more suited to motorway cruising than negotiating the Peak lanes

 

[The Planner]

Why don't the TOCs, or perhaps Railtrack, have their own fleet of buses operated by people who know the area.
High Peak buses have no difficulty running services around this area. To get to Chinley station you need a small single decker. Not the RRB I saw stuck there last week: a 100 seater coach more suited to motorway cruising than negotiating the Peak lanes

Railtrack stopped existing in 2002. Network Rail do not run trains so RRBs are out of the question. If you were a TOC and with different levels of disruption every weekend, how many buses do you need? What are you doing with buses etc when they arent needed? How do you know if local drivers are available as they surely work for other bus operators?

 

[Killingworth]

Railtrack stopped existing in 2002. Network Rail do not run trains so RRBs are out of the question. If you were a TOC and with different levels of disruption every weekend, how many buses do you need? What are you doing with buses etc when they arent needed? How do you know if local drivers are available as they surely work for other bus operators?

Don't TOCs put this out to tender and then it's up to that company to rustle up buses as needed? Curiously Arriva had it for Northern, certainly until recently. Thus we may get a driver and coach from Kendal or Stoke to replace a train in the Peak District, using their own satnav because they've never been there before and haven't been given more than rudimentary route assistance.

If Andrews or another local firm have capacity, both coaches and drivers, and accept the terms offered all tends to go well.

 

[43066]

Why don't the TOCs, or perhaps Railtrack, have their own fleet of buses operated by people who know the area.
High Peak buses have no difficulty running services around this area. To get to Chinley station you need a small single decker. Not the RRB I saw stuck there last week: a 100 seater coach more suited to motorway cruising than negotiating the Peak lanes

You don’t seriously think there’s going to be a fleet of buses on permanent standby just incase a random landslip causes a closure somewhere on the railway network?

Don't TOCs put this out to tender and then it's up to that company to rustle up buses as needed? Curiously Arriva had it for Northern, certainly until recently. Thus we may get a driver and coach from Kendal or Stoke to replace a train in the Peak District, using their own satnav because they've never been there before and haven't been given more than rudimentary route assistance.

If Andrews or another local firm have capacity, both coaches and drivers, and accept the terms offered all tends to go well.

The issue as reported on here by insiders has been that TOCs no longer pay competitive rates for buses, hence they’re often simply not getting anyone willing to do what’s required for the price paid.

 

[Llandudno]

Autumn - ouch. Thank goodness there are diversionary routes !

Probably because there are diversionary routes they aren’t busting a gut to fix it, if the landslip had been east of Chinley then they would move heaven and earth (!!!) to fix it …!

 

[AlastairFraser]

Why don't the TOCs, or perhaps Railtrack, have their own fleet of buses operated by people who know the area.
High Peak buses have no difficulty running services around this area. To get to Chinley station you need a small single decker. Not the RRB I saw stuck there last week: a 100 seater coach more suited to motorway cruising than negotiating the Peak lanes

Because, as another member said, they won't pay enough for most existing operators to bother running RRBs - let alone them buying a fleet of buses.

 

[The Planner]

Because, as another member said, they won't pay enough for most existing operators to bother running RRBs - let alone them buying a fleet of buses.

Network Rail pay TOCs a fixed rate for bus replacement as part of Schedule 4. Its the agreed compensation mechanism for the industry.

 

[greatkingrat]

That doesn't mean the bus companies are willing to do it for that amount though.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Network Rail pay TOCs a fixed rate for bus replacement as part of Schedule 4. Its the agreed compensation mechanism for the industry.

Certainly, but the rail replacement contractors the TOCs use still offer a poor rate.

 

[Class 170101]

Network Rail pay TOCs a fixed rate for bus replacement as part of Schedule 4. Its the agreed compensation mechanism for the industry.

Doesn't cover the cost of some blocks unfortunately.

 

[The Planner]

Doesn't cover the cost of some blocks unfortunately.

They can claim over and above if they believe and can prove that is the case.

 

[Dr Hoo]

They can claim over and above if they believe and can prove that is the case.

Quite. I would have thought that the New Mills incident would be 'Sustained Planned Disruption' in Schedule 4 of Northern's Track Access Agreement, which is surely based on 'negotiation' rather than the formulaic bus costs under the arrangements for typical short pre-planned works.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Does anyone know if this closure is still ongoing today?

 

[1D53]

Does anyone know if this closure is still ongoing today?

Yes, it's closed till the Autumn as posts above.

 

[jfollows]

Does anyone know if this closure is still ongoing today?

Yes.
Until 4 June according to Northern but probably later according to posts above.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Thanks both

 

[175001]

Yes.
Until 4 June according to Northern but probably later according to posts above.

Until the autumn at least. I'll nip into the drop in meeting on Thursday to see what's the plan.

Tonight's meeting was positive. It'll need a full blockade to rectify the fault but they believe it'll be sorted before the autumn

 

[Killingworth]

From Network Rail's New Mills drop in event today (photos taken with their permission), work hopefully to be completed by September, currently intending to keep single track service to New Mills open, although details still to be finalised. Piles to be driven so may be noisy.

It's been slipping since at least 2012, a 2015 fix has not stood the test of time. Constant monitoring picked up new movement in 2021 and that has accelerated over the last year's exceptionally wet weather. An outline plan was already in preparation before the latest slip.

No costs given but over£5 million?

 

[oddiesjack]

When I went to the event, I spoke to the NR chap who was in charge of the cilvil engineering side of the project, and he told me there was likely to be a 4 to 6 week total blockade, probably in June/July. This would be so they could use engineering trains to supply some of the 50,000 tons worth of stone that will be required. Plus they would be able to use larger earthmoving equipment, without having to worry about keeping away from a live running line.
I do wonder how much of a "final straw" the rerouting of all the normally eastbound freight was during the week of the Hope Valley full blockade. One might have thought that the people who had just implemented a 5mph TSR at that location would have suggested to the short-term timetable planners that sending 10s of thousands of extra stone traffic that way was not a very sensible idea. Or maybe there was no discussions about this at all!

 

[JKF]

I guess that 50,000 tonnes of stone won’t be coming from very far away then!

 

[Killingworth]

When I went to the event, I spoke to the NR chap who was in charge of the cilvil engineering side of the project, and he told me there was likely to be a 4 to 6 week total blockade, probably in June/July. This would be so they could use engineering trains to supply some of the 50,000 tons worth of stone that will be required. Plus they would be able to use larger earthmoving equipment, without having to worry about keeping away from a live running line.

To be discussed with TOCs is what I heard. Job done quicker with longer blockade or blockades - quite possibly more than one?

 

[175001]

From the discussion on Thursday, a blockade would speed it up considerably, but if not then a time frame of late August early Sept was mooted