New northern DMU’s due in 2022 as of yet unclassified.

[221101 Voyager]

Does anyone know anything about the 18 x 2 car 100mph sets, shown on the northern Wikipedia article without a TOPS number? I’ve not seen anything about what train they will be, all I know is that they are due in 2 years according to wiki, so some news must surface soon if they are due in 2022.
Thanks for the info!

 

[507021]

They're a part of the franchise agreement for an extra eighteen 2-car units which are at least equivalent to a Turbostar.

However, as there's no Turbostars available, I'm guessing they'll either be the 175s or more 195s.

 

[221101 Voyager]

They're a part of the franchise agreement for an extra eighteen 2-car units which are at least equivalent to a Turbostar.

However, as there's no Turbostars available, I'm guessing they'll either be the 175s or more 195s.

Thank you for the information

 

[ic31420]

Have I dreamt it or did the 175s start life working for FNW and appearing on the Bolton line likely on the Blackpools?

How did they ever come to shunted off to ATW or whoever. They could have been considered the pride of the FNW fleet.

* I see a post in red coming up!

 

[Entertexthere]

Have I dreamt it or did the 175s start life working for FNW and appearing on the Bolton line likely on the Blackpools?

How did they ever come to shunted off to ATW or whoever. They could have been considered the pride of the FNW fleet.

* I see a post in red coming up!

As far as I'm aware, the 175s were utilised by FNW which was the blanket franchise for what is now TPE, Northern and TFW (correct me if I'm wrong though) so they would be found on the Manchester - Blackpool North until the franchise was split. It was then decided that they would go down to the Wales and Borders franchise. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but bearing in mind this was before I was born.

 

[Llama]

The 175s worked the ex-'Northwest Express' Blackpool/Barrow/Windermere-Airport services, Chester-Man Picc via Warrington BQ & North Wales Coast services (iirc taking over from the class 37 LHCS on the Birmingham services) and I remember could be found on the evening peak Piccadilly-Birmingham when the 309s were withdrawn.

 

[edwin_m]

As far as I'm aware, the 175s were utilised by FNW which was the blanket franchise for what is now TPE, Northern and TFW (correct me if I'm wrong though) so they would be found on the Manchester - Blackpool North until the franchise was split. It was then decided that they would go down to the Wales and Borders franchise. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but bearing in mind this was before I was born.

Mirroring the Regional Railways organization under BR, North Wales was part of the FNW franchise but other parts of what is now the TfW network were run by Central Trains and by Wales and West, plus a separate Valley Lines franchise. FNW was then split between the new Wales & Borders and Northern franchises.

One reason W&B got the 175s was that they were maintained by Alstom at a dedicated depot in Chester, a core location for W&B but at the very fringe of the Northern network. Another was that the longer-distance services that the 175s operated outside Wales mostly went to TPE not Northern.

 

[Energy]

Mirroring the Regional Railways organization under BR, North Wales was part of the FNW franchise but other parts of what is now the TfW network were run by Central Trains and by Wales and West, plus a separate Valley Lines franchise. FNW was then split between the new Wales & Borders and Northern franchises.

One reason W&B got the 175s was that they were maintained by Alstom at a dedicated depot in Chester, a core location for W&B but at the very fringe of the Northern network. Another was that the longer-distance services that the 175s operated outside Wales mostly went to TPE not Northern.

Also 175s were the only modern train ATW had, its lucky they got them.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

175s ran FNW services on the Chester-Northwich-Manchester route, also Holyhead-Crewe-Birmingham.
There was also a Chester-Warrington-Blackpool North service to get trains back to Chester for servicing - where they are still based.
At the Manchester end, they were simply switched from Airport/Blackpool/Cumbria services to Cardiff/West Wales.

 

[humbersidejim]

Excess 170s appear to be spoken for by TfW and EMR. In the medium term, is there any prospect of remaining ScotRail 170s being cascaded?

 

[XC victim]

I struggle to understand why Northern were given the class 170’s cascaded from Scotland in the first place considering how desperately XC and Chiltern needed more stock. Surely it would have made more sense for Northern to have ordered more class 195’s in the first place especially as Northern appear to be struggling to find suitable routes for the 170’s

 

[Energy]

I struggle to understand why Northern were given the class 170’s cascaded from Scotland in the first place considering how desperately XC and Chiltern needed more stock. Surely it would have made more sense for Northern to have ordered more class 195’s in the first place especially as Northern appear to be struggling to find suitable routes for the 170’s

Northern got the deal with the ROSCO first.

 

[ohgoditsjames]

Why 2 car?

 

[XC victim]

Northern got the deal with the ROSCO first.

surely that is why we have a dft to oversee these things.

the poor Chiltern passengers forced to endure a 2 coach train from London to Birmingham or the XC passengers continually left behind at Birmingham New Street, they are told there is no rolling stock available, when what they mean this is exactly what the farcical privatised franchise system gives you.

 

[snookertam]

Excess 170s appear to be spoken for by TfW and EMR. In the medium term, is there any prospect of remaining ScotRail 170s being cascaded?

Given how badly ScotRail's experience with the HSTs has went so far, unlikely.

 

[43096]

Excess 170s appear to be spoken for by TfW and EMR. In the medium term, is there any prospect of remaining ScotRail 170s being cascaded?

The only ScotRail 170s left to be released are the five (170416-420) that already have a lease agreed with EMR. The rest have all now been signed up by ScotRail long-term, as agreed with Transport Scotland since the franchise began.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I can only see 2 options. 175's or more 195's, but if they want more 195's they better get those order books open quick for a 2022 delivery.

 

[Bornin1980s]

I struggle to understand why Northern were given the class 170’s cascaded from Scotland in the first place considering how desperately XC and Chiltern needed more stock. Surely it would have made more sense for Northern to have ordered more class 195’s in the first place especially as Northern appear to be struggling to find suitable routes for the 170’s

I always thought Northern hadn't ordered enough 195s.

 

[sw1ller]

I can’t see 175s leaving TfW until at least 2025

 

[sprinterguy]

I can’t see 175s leaving TfW until at least 2025

They're scheduled to go off lease between December 2021 and March 2022, though that is of course dependent on the new CAF Civitys entering services on time.

 

[Meerkat]

I can only see 2 options. 175's or more 195's, but if they want more 195's they better get those order books open quick for a 2022 delivery.

Who else might be in the market for the 175s? Chiltern?
If no one else is keen I can’t see the DfT authorising new 195s instead of Northern taking the 175s

 

[ic31420]

They're scheduled to go off lease between December 2021 and March 2022, though that is of course dependent on the new CAF Civitys entering services on time.

What's happening with Chester depot? Will we have a good burn up when the 175s move to a different depot with no experience of their needs and how to keep them UnBBQd?

If they're staying at Chester /the maintainance contract is still at Chester that pretty much nails them to Northern.

 

[sw1ller]

What's happening with Chester depot? Will we have a good burn up when the 175s move to a different depot with no experience of their needs and how to keep them UnBBQd?

If they're staying at Chester /the maintainance contract is still at Chester that pretty much nails them to Northern.

Chester will slowly become a CAF depot and maintain the new 197’s.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Chester will slowly become a CAF depot and maintain the new 197’s.

Well there is still Longsight and Edge Hill, both on Northern's patch.

 

[Energy]

Who else might be in the market for the 175s? Chiltern?

Northern, ScotRail, GWR or the razor blade factory. Probably northern or the razor blade factory.

 

[Pete_uk]

Why 2 car?

Makes you want to give yourself concussion by putting a dent in the wall.

 

[Energy]

This is Northern, it would be 1 car if it could.

 

[js1000]

I can’t see 175s leaving TfW until at least 2025

I think the 175s at TfW will be gone. The 197s and Stadler's aren't going to pay for themselves.

Who else might be in the market for the 175s? Chiltern?
If no one else is keen I can’t see the DfT authorising new 195s instead of Northern taking the 175s

Agreed

 

[Energy]

I think the 175s at TfW will be gone. The 197s and Stadler's aren't going to pay for themselves

It is part of the franchise agreement, and this is keolis amey not Abellio so the promise has a very high chance of being fulfilled

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Good lord- why are we building more DMUs? Surely we could electrify somewhere and cascade?