Monzo Bank's customer support is close to perfect in my experience. Updates happen sometimes a few times in a week and they seem to listen to every concern and prioritise what to resolve first. They have come a very long way through this process, although of course their customer base was primarily the 'early adopter'. They are about as far from most TOCs as it'd be possible to get.
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New Northern Ticket Machine wants cash - no cash slot!
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
And it is that quality that is going to cause me to switch my banking to them over the next month or two. (I'm going to burn my airport lounge passes from my old account first!
) I've been trialling them with monthly cash spending only and have been very happy.You know what, I'd be happy if Delay Repay was abolished if the money could fund a *proper* customer services department that actually analyse and reply to issues properly and, where appropriate, feed into the proper process to actually fix it in a timely manner - or at the very least explain in detail, personally and honestly why they can't. Same with EU261 on flights (though I would retain that for overbooking or non-technical aircraft swaps, as that particular practice needs discouraging as it is pure avarice on the part of the airlines to do it to the extent that they do).
It's poor service that gets me onto compensation. I claimed a stack of Delay Repay (well over £200 worth) over the issues caused by flooding and the bridge failure on the way to Edinburgh to whack VT hard for dealing with it all so badly and then not looking properly into the issues I raised with them, for instance. The journeys were for work so I didn't even spend them on personal travel - they were claimed purely to use my power to "fine" VT.
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Puffing Devil
Established Member
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It does make you wonder why it's not working "Properly" from day 1; get people used to the idea of a P2P? I can see the less techy savvy looking around for a cash slot in the meantime.
Bantamzen's report that the machines get updated when penalty fares go live is, I believe, correct. The same thing happened at Flixton.
That said, it's ridiculous that in their current state the machines invite you to use a non-existence cash facility. It's not just a configuration problem: a sensibly designed machine would detect for itself the presence or absence of a coin slot and adjust its messages accordingly.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Ability to adjust the display position for wheelchair users?
causton
Established Member
???
Milton Keynes have a few, Watford has four, Euston has some, Northampton surely does, even Lichfield Trent Valley when I went there the other week had one!
A lot of them (St Albans Abbey, Hemel) etc still have at least some of the equipment in there for cash acceptance, and they don't ask for cash, so yes it is an easy software fix to turn cash on or off which makes me laugh that a machine without cash acceptance equipment would ask for payment! The S&Bs are basic enough but they at least check that the cash acceptance part of the TVM is working before inviting you to pay by cash!
Wallsendmag
Established Member
I hear the S&B machines are a nightmare to administer with the simple task of adding a new ticket costing thousands.
Bantamzen
Established Member
I've had no experience with Monzo, so I can't comment but again when I have fed back to Northern under Arriva l they have responded and acted. Which is certainly more than under the previous franchise, so my experience with them is somewhat different from some.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The S&Bs have it at that height anyway, tilting slightly up for standing users.
Hmmm, OK for short standing users, but those of us of a proper height
-)) end up almost kneeling down.On the software side of things, all the issues I have with S&B machines are down to Southeastern's poor specification or configuration, so are out of S&B's control. And trying to get Southeastern to do anything about TVM issues is an impossible task.
Bantamzen
Established Member
To be quite honest, and blunt, the biggest problems with the Northern TVMs and FP seem to be dreamed up on this site. From a casual day to day observation most people seem to have little trouble getting used to them. I'm afraid it's the default position with this franchise on this forum, regardless of owners.
And its not without irony that some people here bemoan the lack of cash facilities at most of their TVMs whilst waxing lyrical about an online banking service. But hey ho, it's all part of life's rich tapestry...
Puffing Devil
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I hope that wasn't aimed at me?
NR have their faults which may be worthy of another thread. Installing a TVM with faulty on-screen instructions is just poor performance. It should have been spotted at the commissioning phase - well under the control of NR.
Switching on P2P on the day is ridiculous, as people have to get used to another way of working or, more worryingly, they know that the machine that they have been using won't take cash and doesn't issue P2P vouchers.
All in all very shoddy. And not because it's NR.
(And for the record I bank with First Direct and have been with them for over 25 years!)
Bantamzen
Established Member
No it wasn't aimed at you. But how do you expect them to switch to FP? There has to be a day one, and from what I saw with the Aire & Wharfe lines rollout Northern published details through their own site and through media, the TVMs displayed splash screens about it, they issued P2Ps from day one, signs went up at entrances and amazingly people quickly caught on.
It's really not shoddy at all, it's just change that some folk don't like. Sadly because there are people who deliberately try to fiddle the system and get away with paying less than they should, or nothing at all, schemes like this end up being implemented. The angst routinely vented on this forum would be better directed at these people than the TOC's.
It is shoddy, as is the way they have dealt with just about all correspondence I've had with them.
You do seem to have a bee in a bonnet about any criticism that comes Northern's way. I do not know why that is, but people are entitled, and quite correct, to point out their poor performance and customer service.
Bantamzen
Established Member
No it it isn't shoddy. Tens if not hundreds if thousands of people have managed to get along with no issues at all. I see it every single day. The big issues only seem to arise with a handful of members on here who seem grimly determined to make a drama out of it.
The bee in my bonnet is not the criticism so much as the at times pathetic attempts by some to make this seem like a problem.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I can't speak for your line but the TVMs installed on my line are not reliable, so requiring passengers to have a ticket or a permission to travel if there's just 1 TVM at the station seems an unwise decision. The permission to travel permits are also an unusual idea and the process you have to follow to get one is illogical, especially if you want a ticket which the TVM doesn't sell. I find ticket validation in Europe a strange concept if you have just bought a ticket for immediate travel but usually you get a message on the TVM telling you to validate the ticket before travel and the validation machines are reliable.
I would argue that it goes slightly beyond illogical. If you want a ticket such as a GM Bus and Train which is a fairly commonly sold ticket by comparison with some such products, and often the cheapest way to make your journey, then you are required to selslct the option on the machine that says 'I do not have a payment card' even if you do and you intend to use it to buy your ticket. I've raised this with Northern and recived no response. I've also pointed out that the button marked assistance on the ticket machine doesn't seem to have any effect when pressed, but again no response.
Of course, in the West Midlands these tickets have been available from ticket machines for a few years. So it's a simple case of Northern being unwilling or unable to make the full range of tickets available through their machines. One has to wonder if any testing took place at all before the machines went public.
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Bantamzen
Established Member
Oh there have been issues. The big one was during the hot weather where some TVMs overheated and shut down. But on reporting Northern responded by telling us that they were not only aware of the problem, but had identified a solution by installing additional cooling fans. They subsequently commissioned the work and the TVM at my local station was back working despite the heat as I believe were others. And during the problems all the guards seemed aware if the issue and had no issues in selling tickets without question.
The other big problem is West Yorkshire was issues with renewing Mcards. Again some communication with them resolved some early problems, and between them and Metro they even started adding stickers around the card readers so the new Mcard holders know where to place them to trigger the renewal process. Terrible customer service I'm sure everyone will agree, you report a problem and they resolve it.
But other than those, and the occasional short term failure, from what I have witnessed they have not caused the chaos some were happily predicting almost a year ago.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
Seems there's a East-Wide divide, issues in the North West can take weeks or even months for Northern to resolve. I've also been informed the station staff at my local station have been told not to bother reporting any issues passengers have with the TVM as the machines 'automatically report issues.'
northwichcat
Veteran Member
I've asked about a 'buy from another station' option for those who hold a ticket which is only valid for part of their journey e.g. if you hold a season ticket and want to travel further than your usual commute at the weekend and all they came back with is "We'll look in to it."
Bantamzen
Established Member
Hmmm, sorry to say this but I have to be slightly cynical about that. Whenever I have raised an issue through their social media feeds they have thanked me for the report and passed it on. I don't think there is some sort of "East-West" divide, why would there be?
I mean surely everyone has spotted that by now
The Northern East, that I use every day, bears little resemblance to Northern West I hear described on here and in person.
Then I don't think you're paying attention to everything that gets reported on here. The vast majority of issues, if you look, come from people talking about the North West. From people asking for help with prosecution issues to service disruption (remember that the North West was falling apart before the May timetable change) to comments about rude/unhelpful staff and issues with things being broken and not fixed.
As for why? Well, even today more than fourteen years later, Northern still have two different controls one in York and one in Manchester. They still, I think, have staff on different contracts some set up by First North Western and some by Arriva Trains Northern. There is still, on the West, distrust of management hanging over from FNW days that isn't quite as prevalent on the East.
You might not have noticed but my experience and the experience of others is that Northern is a very different animal in the East than it is in the West.
northwichcat
Veteran Member
It might be one of the station managers has put out a bad communication or station staff have misinterpreted the message. If it's showing 'out of order' and a red light it probably does report itself and doesn't need a manual second report, but if it's showing a green light but the card reader is unable to read any payment cards (which happened at my station recently) then it probably doesn't report itself.
Bantamzen
Established Member
That's something I didn't know, so it might explain why issues take longer to resolve from the Manchester controlled area, if this is indeed the case.
It will all depend on the software. If numerous transactions fail, it is possible to code it so it reports this as a possible fault. But that will be down to the manufacturer and their developers.
The criticisms are justified; there are many problems and those who expose these problems are in no way being "pathetic".
I'm aware of cases where people have been threatened with prosecution due to a lack of ticket issuing facilities and the company refused to offer adequate assurances, and refuses to put adequate safeguards in place to protect passengers.
I'm aware of many other serious failings of the company that are beyond the scope of this thread, so I won't go into those here, but it all adds to a very concerning state of affairs.
Bantamzen
Established Member
So explain why the Penalty Fare scheme, much ctitisced on here, hasn't caused the chaos some people here predicted? I use four Northern services at least every working day, and I'm yet to see any real problems with it. You might be aware of some issues with Northern, but unless they relate specifically to the Penalty Fare scheme then they are not relevant to this debate.
My point is, and has always been that the problems raised on this forum are not anything like as bad as some would have us believe.
There are some stations where people have to queue for excessive lengths of time to get tickets; some passengers who have been massively inconvenienced and threatened due to having to give their name and address (and even had DOB recorded without their consent) due to lack of ticket issuing facilities; there are stations with conflicting messages which cause angst and confusion; stations with hidden machines that you have to go hunting for (even involving crossing a level crossing and back over again); ticket machines facing the sun that are barely visible in bright conditions that are also exposed to the elements in poor weather...
The list goes on!
Maybe you don't see these things but they do exist.
Accept the fact that we are not happy and we are not going to stop criticising until the issues are resolved; we are not going to shut up just because you don't like to hear criticism. If you don't want to hear it, you could choose not to view all these threads. The points are no less valid just because you have not seen them.
The list goes on!
Maybe you don't see these things but they do exist.
Accept the fact that we are not happy and we are not going to stop criticising until the issues are resolved; we are not going to shut up just because you don't like to hear criticism. If you don't want to hear it, you could choose not to view all these threads. The points are no less valid just because you have not seen them.
Bantamzen
Established Member
Nice way to thrown in a veiled insult at the end there Yorkie!
But regardless of how you value my opinions or otherwise, the fact remains that the predictions of chaos as foretold by some members has not come to pass. For the most part the good people of the Aire & Wharfe valleys have managed to get used to the concept if buying a ticket before boarding, and getting to the station in good time should they need to buy a ticket without fuss.
It is not my intention to shut anybody up, quite the opposite, it is simply to provide some balance and occasionally a dose of reality in a series of threads that have almost exclusively dealt in 'what ifs'.
But regardless of how you value my opinions or otherwise, the fact remains that the predictions of chaos as foretold by some members has not come to pass. For the most part the good people of the Aire & Wharfe valleys have managed to get used to the concept if buying a ticket before boarding, and getting to the station in good time should they need to buy a ticket without fuss.
It is not my intention to shut anybody up, quite the opposite, it is simply to provide some balance and occasionally a dose of reality in a series of threads that have almost exclusively dealt in 'what ifs'.
The man who usually works at one of my local stations says that he doesn't have any mechanism for reporting issues with ticket machines, and he has advised me not to use it before as they're unable to help if there's a problem. Just how accurate this is I don't know, he has had some misunderstandings in the past.
The last time I spoke to Northern's Carlisle Services revenue staff they told me that no mechanism exists for them to remotely check in the live status of a TVM. This has, however, been contradicted by Northern insiders elsewhere, including this forum. So as with many other things I feel left with very little reliable information about what Northern actually think about this.
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