New Overground line names progress?

[Goldfish62]

Are you serious, this is a discussion about names of metro line names, - no need to bang your anti London drum.

Personally I think it's hilarious that some people can be triggered by such innocuous names as Mildmay, Liberty or Weaver. Their lives must be a daily struggle with rage about absolutely everything. I don't know how they cope.

 

[Class15]

Personally I think it's hilarious that some people can be triggered by such innocuous names as Mildmay, Liberty or Weaver. Their lives must be a daily struggle with rage about absolutely everything. I don't know how they cope.

I don’t particularly mind any of those ones (although Weaver is pretty terrible) and I actually quite like the Windrush line. Don’t mind the Suffragette either, although I would have preferred GOBLIN. The one which triggers me is Lioness. What virtue signalling right there.

 

[LLivery]

Just expressing a personal opinion, which I realise isn’t that popular these days unless it conforms to the leftist woke agenda. Just because I don’t agree with you doesn’t make me wrong and you can’t make assumptions about what I do and don’t like.

A little rude if you don’t mind me saying. I was expressing a personal opinion, it’s not a question of dealing with it or not. I don’t like the names, in the same way I didn’t like a pacer, it’s Just an opinion.

This relates to both of you. I was commenting about a railway decision and implementation of it, whereas both of you were attacking me for my opinion. This is happening too often in the UK today. We seem to want to remove free speech because our views don’t conform to what are loud voices as shouting.

Long live democracy (and the Elizabeth Line)… but sadly probably not in the uk.

The loudest in the room tend to be the ones calling everything they don't like a 'leftist woke agenda', and talk freely an awful lot, while claiming they can't talk freely. Also tend to claim that the UK (and the EU) will collapse every 5 minutes.

Statues and naming things for the richest people in history are fine, but heaven forbid you name things after people who have done us a social solid like fight for the right to women to vote, or support racial equality, eh? You call it 'woke', I call it human decency. Free speech allows for critiquing of your free speech. Democracy and that.

Theirs going to be so many named lines if everything local in London gets moved into overground. Which is why I believe if there has to be names , they'll have to be some kind of actual geographical relation for each name, even if something silly like "Surrey Quays line" , not just a bunch of dedications to various special interest groups that don't have any exclusive relation to the line. Yes I'm aware the Jubilee line and Elizabeth are examples too, but only one was named at a time making publicity easier rather than whole spate of them at once

Tbh, I expected that with the Lea Valley routes at least.

 

[renegademaster]

The best system would be name the line after either terminus or notable intermediate station it doesn't share with any other line. Then it becomes immediately obvious to anyone who regularly uses the line which line it is supposed to refer to without having to resort to an expensive PR campaign

 

[Adoarable]

If we keep posting our ideas for what the Overground lines should have been named, I’m sure Sadiq Khan himself will intervene to make everyone happy. I have a feeling we could achieve it in as few as 50,000 more posts on the subject, so keep them coming!

 

[renegademaster]

If we keep posting our ideas for what the Overground lines should have been named, I’m sure Sadiq Khan himself will intervene to make everyone happy. I have a feeling we could achieve it in as few as 50,000 more posts on the subject, so keep them coming!

It's a discussion board, what do you expect, people not discus things?

 

[Dave W]

The best system would be name the line after either terminus or notable intermediate station it doesn't share with any other line. Then it becomes immediately obvious to anyone who regularly uses the line which line it is supposed to refer to without having to resort to an expensive PR campaign

If they'd renamed the lines like that they'd still have had to pay for the PR Campaign...

 

[renegademaster]

If they'd renamed the lines like that they'd still have had to pay for the PR Campaign...

It would be more obvious what which refers too, so it wouldn't need to be as intensive, nor would you need to bring in an external consultancy on silly money to sit around thinking of the names and ensuring you ticked the correct special interest boxes

 

[stuu]

It would be more obvious what which refers too, so it wouldn't need to be as intensive, nor would you need to bring in an external consultancy on silly money to sit around thinking of the names and ensuring you ticked the correct special interest boxes

Votes for women is a special interest?

 

[vuzzeho]

The best system would be name the line after either terminus or notable intermediate station it doesn't share with any other line. Then it becomes immediately obvious to anyone who regularly uses the line which line it is supposed to refer to without having to resort to an expensive PR campaign

Not only would they still require a PR campaign, but that would mean the lines would have to be renamed if they're extended, or if their non-interchange becomes an interchange. Also, this would mean lines could be named after relatively insignificant stops, and a question of 'which terminus'. What would the Lioness line be called using this system? Can't be the Euston or Watford Junction line, and almost all of it is interchange with Bakerloo. Carpenders Park Line? Kilburn High Road line?

 

[renegademaster]

Not only would they still require a PR campaign, but that would mean the lines would have to be renamed if they're extended, or if their non-interchange becomes an interchange. Also, this would mean lines could be named after relatively insignificant stops, and a question of 'which terminus'. What would the Lioness line be called using this system? Can't be the Euston or Watford Junction line, and almost all of it is interchange with Bakerloo. Carpenders Park Line? Kilburn High Road line?

Okay, you've poked a hole in the methodology, but it'd still work for most lines, just call it it's historical name of Watford DC line , or even just the Watford line and accept their won't be free of confusion entirely. I think people won't be confused between the " London Overground Watford line" and the "Bakerloo line"

An imperfect geographically based system is better than just adding 6 lines at once and picking the names essentially at random. It's going to be even messier if GBR hands over all the suburban services to London Overground and TfL has got to think of another 10 identity based names to give to the newly acquired lines

 

[daveid]

Regarding the cost of this, it's very little in the grand scheme and the cost-benefits are almost impossible to calculate but it's fair to say that anything that makes the system easier to use is likely to generate more use and therefore more revenue. If BoJo had kicked this off there'd be no criticism at all. The fact is that Khan, being a left-wing Muslim man of colour, will always be subject to a sustained campaign of vitriol from the majority of the (mostly) right-wing press. I'm not a big fan of some of the new names but in general he's done a great job.

 

[renegademaster]

Regarding the cost of this, it's very little in the grand scheme and the cost-benefits are almost impossible to calculate but it's fair to say that anything that makes the system easier to use is likely to generate more use and therefore more revenue. If BoJo had kicked this off there'd be no criticism at all. The fact is that Khan, being a left-wing Muslim man of colour, will always be subject to a sustained campaign of vitriol from the majority of the (mostly) right-wing press. I'm not a big fan of some of the new names but in general he's done a great job.

This is just silly. Their was plenty of criticism of the right wing coded namings of the Jubilee and Elizabeth lines, and Boris was constantly railed against for his vanity projects, why should Khan be immune for criticism for his own ones.

The ultimate difference though between the names given through right wing virtual signalling was they had a spacing of 20 years so between them so people could get used to them while overground was 6 names invented at once.

 

[miklcct]

I travelled on the soon-to-be Mildmay line today for a round trip, and the situation was:

- the signs at West Hampstead and Gospel Oak were still old, but there signs at Finchley Road & Frognal were replaced with Mildmay line signs. The timetable was still an old one.

- the passenger information system on class 378 was updated. As posted above the calling points are now shown on the board outside the train (I am not sure how useful it is - I think it is better to show the words "Mildmay line" and the destination instead, as all trains always stop at all stations.

- Inside the train, Finchley Road & Frognal is told as an interchange for the "London Underground Metropolitan line", which didn't exist before, while at Gospel Oak, the interchange is now "Suffragette line to Barking Riverside". Also, the valid ticket announcement now includes "bank card" in addition to "valid ticket" and "Oyster card".

 

[Tobberz]

Some line names seem better than others, it seems crazy to either profess to love them all because you hate "conservative" names like "Jubilee" and "Elizabeth", or hate them all because they're "woke".

My main objection is they're not thematically consistent (i.e., they all have different reasoning for their separate names). I'd rather they, for example, all be geographical, or all be based on a local figure, or whatever. You can argue that the Underground isn't consistent in line naming, but it wasn't all named at once like in this case.

 

[waveyswirley]

Not sure about the use of the roundel in the car diagrams, I appreciate the lines need to display a unifying Overground brand but not sure placing the roundel next to the name is the most elegant solution. Not sure what I would do instead though

 

[Mikey C]

Regarding the cost of this, it's very little in the grand scheme and the cost-benefits are almost impossible to calculate but it's fair to say that anything that makes the system easier to use is likely to generate more use and therefore more revenue. If BoJo had kicked this off there'd be no criticism at all. The fact is that Khan, being a left-wing Muslim man of colour, will always be subject to a sustained campaign of vitriol from the majority of the (mostly) right-wing press. I'm not a big fan of some of the new names but in general he's done a great job.

Or it's possible to think that Sadiq is a mediocre Mayor, but has won because the Conservatives are very unpopular in London now since Brexit, and have put up even worse candidates...

How is Mildmay being pronounced? Mild may or milled may?

 

[Wolfie]

The on-train announcements appear to have been updated on a budget of 5p and are now rather weird. An apparently automated voice saying "This is a X line service" followed by the original voice stating the stops.

 

[paninaro]

The on-train announcements appear to have been updated on a budget of 5p and are now rather weird. An apparently automated voice saying "This is a X line service" followed by the original voice stating the stops.

That should please those worried about the cost of the naming.

Seriously though I was just on Windrush and didn't notice the weirdness but will pay more attention later the week

 

[Wolfie]

That should please those worried about the cost of the naming.

Seriously though I was just on Windrush and didn't notice the weirdness but will pay more attention later the week

I was on the Windrush earlier when l noticed it. It might just be that one train l suppose. Will have a listen when l head home on the Mildmay.

 

[Joe Paxton]

How is Mildmay being pronounced? Mild may or milled may?

'Mild may'

 

[Wolfie]

How is Mildmay being pronounced? Mild may or milled may?

Do you really expect anything other than RP on pre-recorded announcements in London? Staff on the mike may be different but.....

 

[Acton1991]

I was on the Windrush earlier when l noticed it. It might just be that one train l suppose. Will have a listen when l head home on the Mildmay.

Same on the Mildmay. It seems very off.

 

[Farigiraf]

To give my two cents on the situation, I think the problem partly comes down to the linguistics. Windrush or Weaver flow quite easy, but line names like Suffragette have more syllables than GOBLIN and naturally people will resort to the name which takes the least time to say. Hence why I think '(Direction) London Line' names should go - not just because they are quite misleading (North London line goes to Acton while West London Line doesn't) - while simple ones such as GOBLIN or Lea Valley can stay.

 

[Wolfie]

Same on the Mildmay. It seems very off.

Glad that l'm not cracking up lol....

 

[Meerkat]

I guess that the precedent was set by the Elizabeth line.

Elizabeth on its own would sound a bit odd. Maybe Elizabethan would sound better. Personally I think it’s too long and therefore always use Crossrail or Lizzie

Anything so as not to have to accept the real reason for not liking the new names is because they represent things they don't care about, or actively feel threatened by because they're presumably weak little babies that haven't grown up yet.

Frankly its you that sounds childish with such an accusation.
If they were good names there wouldn’t have been half so much fuss, but Mildmay is a terrible name that just showed how ‘woke’ (for want of a better term) was the only driver for the choices. Lioness little better (though at least you can make the link with Wembley to remember which one it is). Windrush is pretty good - very recognisable and the line goes through areas people tend to associate with black communities.

 

[jon0844]

Given most people have zero idea what the word 'woke' means, don't be offended if I ignore the posts from anyone who uses the word. Extra bonus points for slipping in things like 'leftist' or 'agenda'. (Don't worry, you still have the freedom to say what you want so there's no need to play the victim card).

They. Are. Just. Names.

People will get used to them. It may take a while - I cannot remember which one is which for example - but they'll get used to them. And even if they don't, they're all under the London Overground umbrella and so you can just ignore the names if you really can't keep the blood pressure under control because a name is hurting you.

 

[vuzzeho]

They. Are. Just. Names.

I wholeheartedly agree. I appreciate the reasoning behind the names but at the end of the day, they're names and that's that. I'm sure within 2 weeks everyone (excl. people on this forum) will be calling it the Windrush, Mildmay, etc. Tomorrow's the big day, so I'm excited to see the rollout!

 

[jon0844]

I wholeheartedly agree. I appreciate the reasoning behind the names but at the end of the day, they're names and that's that. I'm sure within 2 weeks everyone (excl. people on this forum) will be calling it the Windrush, Mildmay, etc. Tomorrow's the big day, so I'm excited to see the rollout!

People can call them (and other lines) whatever they want. Prefer Crossrail, fine. Prefer GOBLIN, fine. Prefer any other nickname? Knock yourself out. I'm sure you'll be great in a pub quiz about the original names/working titles, but perhaps less so when trying to talk to other people who won't be so onboard with your personal crusade and will just think you're weird.

It is going to take a while to learn them, but I am sure most people have the capability of doing so and in a few years it won't be an issue. Well, it's not really an issue now because even if you can't remember which line is which, they'll still be referred to as London Overground as they were - so it's 'backwardly compatible' so-to-speak.

 

[stevieinselby]

Giving the lines individual names makes complete sense so that's good. The names chosen though are pretty awful and don't help from a geographical point of view. If only BoJo had gone along with TfL's plan in 2015 then the lines would have had the sensible names we wanted not this nonsense.

How much geographical information do the names of the Underground lines convey?

• Bakerloo - when you know it connects Baker Street and Waterloo, I guess that is some help, but it isn't even the only line that does that.
• Central - all the lines serve Central London.
• Circle - is kind of a circle, apart from the bit that isn't, but that's fair enough.
• District - meaningless, London is full of districts
• Hammersmith & City - woo-hoo, this one does what it says on the tin - apart from the eastern leg.
• Jubilee - no geographical connection at all
• Metropolitan - meaningless, all of London is the metropolis
• Northern - serves the most southerly station on the network
• Piccadilly - goes through Piccadilly Circus, but it isn't the only line to do that, and it does go a long way north and west as well
• Victoria - goes through Victoria, but it isn't the only line to do that, and it does go a long way north and south as well
• Waterloo & City - at last, we've got one where the name does tell you where it goes

There are one or two of the Overground lines where I think they've made a poor choice, but I also realise that my opinion is just that, my personal opinion, and I don't expect TfL to pander to my views.

Not sure "line" needs to be included for any of them. None of the Underground lines have "line" at the end.

Signage within the station always refers to "Northern Line", "Central Line" etc.