New Plans Revealed for Cardiff Central.

[Envoy]

New plans have now been revealed for Cardiff Central. I am pleased that the wooden wavy roof design has been dropped in favour of a sleeker look. (Wood outdoors can go to look tatty with weathering - just look at the underside of outdoor sections of the Senedd roof)!

If they have a large passageway between the south & north sides of the station, then surely, they could have the new bus/coach station on the south side (present car park) rather than on the proposed car park site near Marland House? Thus, rail passengers exiting the north side of Central would not have to negotiate bus & coaches going in and out of a north side station. Coaches such as National Express & Greyhound could also get in and out of the central area more quickly by using the A4232 to the Bay & then coming up Lloyd George Avenue and thus avoid St.Mary & Wood Streets altogether. (Network Rail rather than the Council own the land on the south side).

I am not sure why the illustration shows pavement umbrellas outside the proposed new frontage as it faces north and is therefore usually shaded (& cold). Not the place to dine out - especially as it would block the large streams of people coming & going from the station. (Outdoor umbrellas would be more appropriate on the south side - which is warmer as it is sheltered from cold northerly winds & faces the sun - when it makes a rare appearance).

Looking at the illustrations, it would appear that the architects, Powell Dobson, are under the impression that the German ICE trains will form the electric stock. You would have thought that by now they would have been aware of what the new 'green' Great Western trains will look like!

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-plans-transform-cardiff-central-97365

The initial plans were for a glass box design coming out from the front of the station, with a wave designed roof.

But now architects Powell Dobson have amended the designs so the front of the station doesn't encroach as much on the proposed new 150,000 sq ft headquarters for BBC Cymru Wales - on the site of the existing bus station.

The options under consideration are whether to have retail underneath the existing platforms with passenger access to train services or, similar to the recent revamp of Reading Station, to have retail and access above track level....

 

[TheNewNo2]

They're architects, I expect the livery they chose was entirely based on what complemented the colours of the building best.

Looks pretty good to me.

 

[rf_ioliver]

I do like the colour scheme on those ICE Velario trains

Ian

 

[Chris125]

It's hard to square the renders with a station whose booking hall, passenger subway, platforms 1-4, 6 & 7 and platform buildings are all listed as the "most complete example of GWR major city railway station of the period following the regrouping of the railway system" - certainly the treatment of the main building is a step back in my opinion, much more intrusive architecturally and physically to the extent that they seem to propose lopping off the clock tower.

Chris

 

[yorksrob]

I would also question the ambition to remove the functional, yet attractive platform canopies with a lot of chrome and glass, which in all likelihood will look very dated after ten years.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I agree wholeheartedly with the above two comments, the planned 'revamp' is horrendously damaging to a wonderful peice of GWR architecture. Somebody please, save Cardiff Central from the proposed vandalism and increase passenger space in a more-sensitive way (either by extending the new southern entrance, which is a modern structure anyway, or (if possible) by enlarging the underpass which provides access to the lifts (unlike the one that provides access to the platforms via stairs, I seem to recall the the lift underpass isn't a traditional feature of the station)).

As well as the potential 'lopping off' of the clock tower, I note that the Wales Route Study suggested that the scheme would include lengthening platform 0 to take IEP trains. Assuming they mean full-length sets, not just the 5-car ones, I cannot see how they could do that without demolishing most of the main building the clock sits on top of.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Somebody please, save Cardiff Central from the proposed vandalism and increase passenger space in a more-sensitive way (either by extending the new southern entrance, which is a modern structure anyway, or (if possible) by enlarging the underpass which provides access to the lifts (unlike the one that provides access to the platforms via stairs, I seem to recall the the lift underpass isn't a traditional feature of the station)).

The subway to the lifts was formerly for Parcels. This enabled loaded platform trollies to be kept out of the way of passengers. The word 'Parcels' is still carved into stone above the entrance to the subway.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The subway to the lifts was formerly for Parcels. This enabled loaded platform trollies to be kept out of the way of passengers. The word 'Parcels' is still carved into stone above the entrance to the subway.

That's interesting, but also confusing. I'm looking at my pictures of the station and cannot find the word 'Parcels' carved in stone anywhere. There is a doorway marked 'LUGGAGE ENTRANCE' on the exterior of the station but that doesn't seem to line up with either subway, which are both accessed via ticket barriers within the interior of the northern main building.

It would be interesting to know exactly what is under there, is the railway essentially on an embankment with the subways tunneled through it or is there lots of unused space under the tracks?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

That's interesting, but also confusing. I'm looking at my pictures of the station and cannot find the word 'Parcels' carved in stone anywhere. There is a doorway marked 'LUGGAGE ENTRANCE' on the exterior of the station but that doesn't seem to line up with either subway, which are both accessed via ticket barriers within the interior of the northern main building.

It would be interesting to know exactly what is under there, is the railway essentially on an embankment with the subways tunneled through it or is there lots of unused space under the tracks?

You are quite correct. My memory was playing tricks. The subway was used to convey heavy luggage via the lifts to and from the platforms, hence the 'Luggage Entrance'. It was also used for parcels conveyed on platform trolleys, the lifts being big enough to take platform trolleys. Bear in mind that the station has also undergone some subtle changes not immediately apparent. The main Booking Office ran along the back of the station facade so that the ticket windows were opposite the ticket barriers. The present Booking Office occupies part of the site which used to house the Gower Restaurant; the Red Dragon Bar and Cafeteria and a couple of showrooms for local retailers.

 

[NotATrainspott]

I agree wholeheartedly with the above two comments, the planned 'revamp' is horrendously damaging to a wonderful peice of GWR architecture. Somebody please, save Cardiff Central from the proposed vandalism and increase passenger space in a more-sensitive way (either by extending the new southern entrance, which is a modern structure anyway, or (if possible) by enlarging the underpass which provides access to the lifts (unlike the one that provides access to the platforms via stairs, I seem to recall the the lift underpass isn't a traditional feature of the station)).

As well as the potential 'lopping off' of the clock tower, I note that the Wales Route Study suggested that the scheme would include lengthening platform 0 to take IEP trains. Assuming they mean full-length sets, not just the 5-car ones, I cannot see how they could do that without demolishing most of the main building the clock sits on top of.

The article seems to suggest that the plan is to keep just the listed façade of the GWR building and integrate it into the rest of the new concourse building.

 

[CardiffKid]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/ambitious-plans-transform-cardiff-central-11750624

Cardiff Council, Welsh Govt and DfT are exploring ways to raise £5m for a feasibility study.

 

[Rhydgaled]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/ambitious-plans-transform-cardiff-central-11750624

Cardiff Council, Welsh Govt and DfT are exploring ways to raise £5m for a feasibility study.

I still cannot understand how they can even be contemplating the works illustrated in the artist's impressions that have been shown. Domestic properties, I believe, are very unlikely to be given listed building consent for replacing windows with double glazed plastic units (and quite right too). How Network Rail, DfT etc. think they can get listed building consent for these proposals, which seem to involve demolishing well over half the station, is beggars belief. The really scary thing is that such schemes at other stations have gained listed building consent in the past; how have they got these things past the planners? Bribes?

 

[CapitalStar378]

The main station building is being retained inside a larger new structure which complies with listed building law. Not sure about the platform buildings but is there an opt out if it's essential for transport development?

 

[Harbornite]

I do like the colour scheme on those ICE Velario trains

Ian

Me too!


For those who can't see the article for whatever reason, here are some images showing the proposals.

I have mixed feelings about this. Investment is a good thing but it would be a shame to lose or mutilate historic buildings.

 

[CardiffKid]

Hi. Apologies for not providing the text in my post this afternoon. My computer at work doesn't like WalesOnline and I copied the post from Twitter.

This is the second attempt at modernising the station, which many passengers will welcome as the travelling public like nothing much more than moaning - plus a new station will help with platform capacity, if not track capacity.

However, of the three illustrations in the story I think the middle one is from the original set of plans that had a curved roof rather than the flat roof in the first picture.

 

[Rhydgaled]

The main station building is being retained inside a larger new structure which complies with listed building law.

A few points:

1. As far as I know, 'listed building law' doesn't say what is and what isn't acceptable, it just states that modifications require consent from a specific body (sometimes the local planning authority, sometimes Cadw or English Heritage). I could be wrong, but that's the way I understand it
2. By the looks of the illustrations, the 'main station building' isn't exactly 'being retained'.
   • The main building (on the north side of the tracks) appears to have lost:
     • its roof,
     • the clock tower,
     • the east wall, except for the very top part,
     • the canopy running along the front and round to the east wall (although I'm not sure if that is an original feature),
     • the entire west wing (currently M&S) and
     • possibly the south wall (if platform 0 is extended eastwards I expect that wall would be demolished too), although the illustrations appear to show the south wall retained but with large windows looking onto the tracks cut through it
   • One option involves the demolition of all platform buildings and canopies, and the alternative is not clear but might destroy the tiled subway

Essentially, it appears the only part of the station sure to be retained relatively intact is the front (north) wall, but even that looks like it may have been hacked about abit on some of the illustrations (it is hard to tell, but windows appear to have been extended down to ground level)

 

[Envoy]

A new video from architects Powell Dobson - who are working with Network Rail on the designs for upgrading Cardiff Central - has been released.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/video-showing-how-redeveloped-cardiff-11770000#rlabs=9%20rt$category%20p$1

Looks good to me but surely, the external wood will soon deteriorate - just as it has on the Senedd.

 

[greaterwest]

Does that include the new SWT service from Waterloo to Cardiff using AC converted three-car class 444 trains? Or will there be a third rail extension from Reading to Cardiff and into the valleys?

I think this design looks nice, but as per OP's observation, the external wood won't last long unless it's treated regularly and properly. It really brings a modern perspective to the station.

The overbridge (about 2:00 into the video) reminds me of Reading.

 

[Envoy]

Yes, it is rather unfortunate that whoever made the video did not put some new GWR Hitachi trains in the imagery. Perhaps they know something we don’t and that the third rail electric system as used by SW Trains is to be extended!

Anyway, I am sure that if they adopt this external wood panelling that it won’t be maintained and will soon go to look tatty. As I already mentioned, the external wood on the Senedd building already looks tatty along with the leeching out of calcium that is now turning the slate white.

(The Senedd building is the Welsh Assembly in Cardiff Bay).

 

[Rhydgaled]

A new video from architects Powell Dobson - who are working with Network Rail on the designs for upgrading Cardiff Central - has been released.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/video-showing-how-redeveloped-cardiff-11770000#rlabs=9%20rt$category%20p$1

Looks good to me but surely, the external wood will soon deteriorate - just as it has on the Senedd.

Wait, this video is new? I've not seen it before, but I thought that wavy 'Tesco Havant' roof design (which spared the clock tower, but was really out of keeping) had been ditched.

 

[Tio Terry]

I'm guessing that the canopy's would need to be cut back to allow electrification with adequate distances between live parts and people anyway