New platforms at Edinburgh Waverley

[oldman]

From today's Scotsman:

TWO new platforms will replace the former taxi rank at Waverley station in Edinburgh to help cater for an expected doubling of passengers over the next ten years, Network Rail announced today.

Three other platforms will be extended to accommodate longer trains as part of the latest £25m upgrade of Scotland’s second busiest station, which handles around 20 million passengers a year. It currently has 18 platforms.

Two new “long length” platforms will be created south of the main building, which was used by taxis until June.

Platforms five and six, at the east end of the former taxi rank, will be brought back into use and extended, while platform 12, on the west side of the station, will also be lengthened.

Tracks will be streamlined to ease train movements, and signalling improved.

The extra space is needed for longer trains on the main line to Glasgow when it is electrified in 2016, and new trains on the east coast main line to London two years later.

Preliminary work will start in October, with platform construction starting in February and finishing in March 2016.

I suspect the Scotsman has garbled this a bit (it happens). Perhaps the new 'long-length' platforms are the same as the reinstated 5 and 6.

 

[thealexweb]

Is there enough space for two platforms there? See the photo below, sorry for the poor quality but its the only one I have showing the taxi rank.

 

[Altnabreac]

From today's Scotsman:



I suspect the Scotsman has garbled this a bit (it happens). Perhaps the new 'long-length' platforms are the same as the reinstated 5 and 6.

Interesting. There's some (equally vague) information about this project on the EGIP site: http://www.egip.info/projects/edinburgh-waverley-platform-extensions-infrastructure-works

It seems to involve demolishing the south car ramp and extending platform 12 into the space left behind.

What isn't explicitly clear from either the EGIP page or the Scotsman is whether the proposal is for separate platforms at each end of the station or new through lines.

I suspect and hope the phrase "new long length platforms" means two new platforms running right through the station effectively creating an island platform with the existing 7/11 and the new (extended from a stub) 6. Platform 12/5 then becomes the new southerly platform on the existing main island.

 

[overthewater]

Which direction would the trains be travelling? If they're heading westward how will the tunnels down to Haymarket deal with all these extra trains?

Also we have found out if platforms five and six will be used for the Borders Railway?

 

[scotsman]

Old news. Platforms 12/13 are to be extended to the length of 14-18. Platforms 5 and 6, to the best of my understanding, are the current motorail bays. These would be extended back to the ramp where taxis used to enter, and could be used for intercity services.

Additionally, platforms 3 and 4 could be extended back to the entrance of the operations depot, which could also be used for intercity services.

 

[Altnabreac]

Old news. Platforms 12/13 are to be extended to the length of 14-18. Platforms 5 and 6, to the best of my understanding, are the current motorail bays. These would be extended back to the ramp where taxis used to enter, and could be used for intercity services.

Additionally, platforms 3 and 4 could be extended back to the entrance of the operations depot, which could also be used for intercity services.

Yes the fact that new platforms are being brought into use and extended is old news but the scale of it is interesting.

If as you described here 12/13 are extended to match 14-18 you need to completely remove the former taxi ramp and use that space for platforms.

5 and 6 are indeed the motorail bays, they were given numbers during the last refurbishment to reflect their potential for future use if extended but have not actually been used for passenger trains for many years.

If you extend them to sufficient length for Class 91s / IEPs as you describe, then that would involve them coming up to the area of the former taxi ramp as well.

Once you have done both these things then for operational flexibility and additional capacity you may well decide to connect both these new platforms to each other. This is what I'm not sure about in these plans though, will the platforms be long through platforms or will there be a small gap between them around the current concourse area?

Terminal platforms are inherently less efficient in terms of their capacity usage than through platforms as occupation times are shorter for through trains.

Indeed one project developed as part of the 6tph iteration of EGIP, was turnback sidings at Abbeyhill for Edinburgh - Glasgow trains, to allow them to run through Waverley and allow cleaning, reversal, drivers change ends etc to happen outside the station thus reducing platform occupation times.

My understanding is that Abbeyhill turnback has been dropped from the current 4tph EGIP specification for now but remains available as an option for increasing capacity at Waverley in future if required.

 

[oldman]

If the southern (taxi) ramp went, that would leave just one vehicle access with a tiny turning circle at the bottom for deliveries, emergencies, rail replacement coaches etc. Is that enough for such a site? Last time I was there they had put a fence round the turning circle, creating pedestrian congestion at the foot of the escalator leading to the Waverley Steps. All looks a bit incoherent to me.

And did they really spend all that money on the tank traps while already planning to remove the ramp to extend 12 and 13?

 

[Altnabreac]

Looking at the station plans again I think you can extend platform 12 without actually demolishing the taxi ramp. This may be why the plans do not include extending platform 13 any longer as it is definitely behind the ramp so would need demolition.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Edinburgh-Waverley-station-map.pdf

Looks like you would need to demolish (at least part of) the Scotrail First Class / Sleeper Lounge and the other building currently located between Platform 11 and the south ramp (Scotrail mess?)

Again the question would be do you connect through to 5 or 6 as a through platform or just have 3 long terminal platforms at 12, 5 and 6.

 

[jnty]

If the southern (taxi) ramp went, that would leave just one vehicle access with a tiny turning circle at the bottom for deliveries, emergencies, rail replacement coaches etc. Is that enough for such a site?

I might be wrong but I don't think rail replacement buses come down there any more.

 

[thealexweb]

I might be wrong but I don't think rail replacement buses come down there any more.

I have lived in Edinburgh for the last two years and have never once seen any bus or coaches enter the station. When my TPE service from Bolton was cancelled at Carlisle the replacement coach dropped us off on Waverley Bridge.

 

[deltic08]

I have lived in Edinburgh for the last two years and have never once seen any bus or coaches enter the station. When my TPE service from Bolton was cancelled at Carlisle the replacement coach dropped us off on Waverley Bridge.

Rail replacement buses aren't run for the convenience of passengers, so why be concerned that they have to walk 100 yards down a very steep slope or worse still walk up a very steep slope as part of their travelling experience. It just deters the occasional and elderly.

 

[thealexweb]

Rail replacement buses aren't run for the convenience of passengers, so why be concerned that they have to walk 100 yards down a very steep slope or worse still walk up a very steep slope as part of their travelling experience. It just deters the occasional and elderly.

I do not mind the current drop off point. I was merely stating what I have experienced. I would not mind if they even made the bus station the drop off point.

 

[najaB]

Rail replacement buses aren't run for the convenience of passengers, so why be concerned that they have to walk 100 yards down a very steep slope or worse still walk up a very steep slope as part of their travelling experience. It just deters the occasional and elderly.

When I've got the Scotrail rail-replacement buses they've used the Market Street entrance, which doesn't require a 100 yard walk down/up a slope - in fact there are escalators!

 

[route:oxford]

Perhaps it's the right time to look at redeveloping the two "outside" platforms and consider future growth requirements of the station.

Building two or more underground HS2 "international" terminal platforms at this time would probably save a lot of time and money at a later date.

 

[NotATrainspott]

Perhaps it's the right time to look at redeveloping the two "outside" platforms and consider future growth requirements of the station.

Building two or more underground HS2 "international" terminal platforms at this time would probably save a lot of time and money at a later date.

I doubt it. The only realistic way to provide more platform capacity at Waverley after this is to build down, but building it for high speed trains only arriving from one direction (and needing several underground Stepney Green caverns to have an underground track fan) would be very expensive indeed.

Instead you should build it for use by metro/regional services, as you only need two platforms and two running tunnels, which can be launched from Abbeyhill or suchlike in the east. The TBMs would be able to continue through all the way to the city bypass in the west, and all that is then needed is to find some way of swapping the high speed and metro services between the surface and the tunnel between Haymarket and Waverley. With the Trams, especially once built to Newhaven and the original service pattern of 6ph Airport-Ocean Terminal, 6tph Haymarket-Newhaven has been put in place - it is now not infeasible to close the southern Haymarket tunnels for months at a time, leaving metro services to terminate at Haymarket from the west. In that time the tunnel could be redirected downwards into the new TBM bores, while leaving space for other tunnels to be built so that the high speed trains would surface from them between the Castle and Waverley Bridge. Both tunnels could have 1-in-40 gradients as only electric trains would ever use them. Once the metro services have been sent to the tunnels it would then free up capacity for the southern half of Waverley to be rebuilt to provide four standard TSI-compliant platforms plus any other classic ones that may fit as well.

 

[kermit]

In my opinion, the platform level taxi rank has been a major loss for Waverley, both in terms of convenience for passengers, and the ambience of the station.

No going back now though

 

[jnty]

In my opinion, the platform level taxi rank has been a major loss for Waverley, both in terms of convenience for passengers, and the ambience of the station.

No going back now though

I love it - no more almost getting run over by taxis barreling down the entrance ramp when trying to cross to P11. And Market Street is still pretty easy to get to.

 

[Class83]

I don't think 12 and 13 could be made as long as 14-17 without demolishing the ramp, but if they just encroach into where the Scotrail Booking Office currently is they might just be long enough for 8*23 carriages which is probably the requirement.

 

[dcsprior]

In my opinion, the platform level taxi rank has been a major loss for Waverley, both in terms of convenience for passengers, and the ambience of the station.

I agree wholeheartedly, losing the drop-off was also a significant change for the worse.

No going back now though

Is the closure of the taxi rank permanent? I had assumed it was to allow the reversal of the mess that was made by adding the automatic barriers which caused such bad delays that taxi meters were up to the £5 mark by the time I got to the top of the ramp on more than one occasion.

 

[scotsman]

I agree wholeheartedly, losing the drop-off was also a significant change for the worse.


Is the closure of the taxi rank permanent? I had assumed it was to allow the reversal of the mess that was made by adding the automatic barriers which caused such bad delays that taxi meters were up to the £5 mark by the time I got to the top of the ramp on more than one occasion.

Nope, it was withdrawn permanently after the tragic death of a man who was hit by a reversing vehicle at the top of the ramp after he discovered his vehicle was not allowed entry.

 

[edwin_m]

I love it - no more almost getting run over by taxis barreling down the entrance ramp when trying to cross to P11. And Market Street is still pretty easy to get to.

Fortunately the days of taxis being allowed within station buildings are largely gone across the network (anyone know of anywhere still doing this?). It's probably largely for security reasons (what easier way to blow up a station?) but I for one welcome the absence of vehicles which are dangerous when moving in these crowded areas, and when stopped are usually idling and pumping out PM10s.

 

[overthewater]

It also means there are no queues building up within the station. I remember seeing all to often huge queues for taxis and none appearing. The people would have been quicker going for the bus.

So a lot of limited space has been freed up.

 

[scotsman]

Fortunately the days of taxis being allowed within station buildings are largely gone across the network (anyone know of anywhere still doing this?). It's probably largely for security reasons (what easier way to blow up a station?) but I for one welcome the absence of vehicles which are dangerous when moving in these crowded areas, and when stopped are usually idling and pumping out PM10s.

Network Rail said in the press release that EDB was the last place on the network where taxis entered the station.

 

[oldman]

Network Rail said in the press release that EDB was the last place on the network where taxis entered the station.

I think they said the last NR-managed station. Clever piece of wording. How many stations does NR manage?

 

[jopsuk]

I think they said the last NR-managed station. Clever piece of wording. How many stations does NR manage?

Nineteen

 

[dcsprior]

Nope, it was withdrawn permanently after the tragic death of a man who was hit by a reversing vehicle at the top of the ramp after he discovered his vehicle was not allowed entry.

I hadn't known that. But I guess that a repeat of tragic accident could be prevented by removing the barriers, rather than removing access entirely?

Network Rail said in the press release that EDB was the last place on the network where taxis entered the station.

I think they said the last NR-managed station. Clever piece of wording. How many stations does NR manage?

Nineteen

And how many of them have the main concourse at a different level to the road outside where the taxi-rank and public drop-off/pick-up is?

The fact that Waverley isn't at street level is what made having these inside the station very useful.

It also means there are no queues building up within the station. I remember seeing all to often huge queues for taxis and none appearing. The people would have been quicker going for the bus.

So a lot of limited space has been freed up.

I remember bad queues too, but only after the barriers went in. It all seemed to work perfectly well until Network Rail "fixed" a problem that wasn't there, this made things a lot worse.

 

[edwin_m]

And how many of them have the main concourse at a different level to the road outside where the taxi-rank and public drop-off/pick-up is?

Off the top of my head:
- Paddington
- Manchester Piccadilly
- Glasgow Central
- London Victoria
- Liverpool Street
- Euston

 

[dcsprior]

Off the top of my head:
- Paddington
- Manchester Piccadilly
- Glasgow Central
- London Victoria
- Liverpool Street
- Euston

From that list, the only station I regularly use is London Victoria. It does have a taxi rank at concourse/platform level - leave by the small exit at Platform 1, as if heading to the Hilton Doubletree and turn left.

I think the road outside Glasgow Central is also at concourse level, and a quick play around on Google Earth seems to confirm this, but I've not been there for years so can't be sure.

 

[NotATrainspott]

From that list, the only station I regularly use is London Victoria. It does have a taxi rank at concourse/platform level - leave by the small exit at Platform 1, as if heading to the Hilton Doubletree and turn left.

I think the road outside Glasgow Central is also at concourse level, and a quick play around on Google Earth seems to confirm this, but I've not been there for years so can't be sure.

The concourse has a shallow ramp across its entire width down to Gordon Street and the taxis. There are steps down to Union and Hope Streets but these aren't the main way of entering the station. There used to be an internal car park but as part of the GARL/Paisley Corridor improvements this was converted back into two platforms for the extra services.

 

[edwin_m]

From that list, the only station I regularly use is London Victoria. It does have a taxi rank at concourse/platform level - leave by the small exit at Platform 1, as if heading to the Hilton Doubletree and turn left.

I think the road outside Glasgow Central is also at concourse level, and a quick play around on Google Earth seems to confirm this, but I've not been there for years so can't be sure.

I mainly use the SouthCentral side of Victoria from which the taxi rank above the shops is much closer even if a level change is involved. National Rail also shows one outside the front of the station but with the Tube works I'm not sure if that is there at the moment. The same map has no indication of a taxi rank near platform 1 but that might be an error in the map or it could be an "on street" rank that isn't part of the station.

I agree with the other post of Glasgow Central - the concourse slopes so most of it is at a higher level than the taxis.