New routes for sleeper trains

[greyman42]

It's at this point I think back on my holiday to Japan, and the bad idea fairy suddenly pops into my head...

Capsule hotel sleeper trains, anyone?
Claustrophobia? What's that?

Just cozy.

 

[6Gman]

Scene, a frosty Platform 2 at Edinburgh station, inside a dimly lit coach with airline style lie flat seats

HOST: “Good morning Sir. This is Edinburgh. Would you mind awfully getting out of bed and turning yourself and the seat round, so that we can continue our journey to Inverness. No, feet first please, Sir”

PASSENGER: “BUT IT’S 4AM YOU MADMAN !!!!”

Run it round the Edinburgh Suburban so it can be turned without a reversal. Just think of all the extra income from track bashers!


(No, this is not a serious suggestion.)

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

I have a stupid idea for a Scottish internal sleeper involving DMU sleeper coaches tacked onto a combination of late night and early morning DMU services.

Not ideal but cheap!

 

[JonathanH]

I have a stupid idea for a Scottish internal sleeper involving DMU sleeper coaches tacked onto a combination of late night and early morning DMU services.

Not ideal but cheap!

What is cheap about it?

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

What is cheap about it?

Cheap-er in that you could just tack it onto existing services and use the same driver, guard, path and less fuel than a stand alone service.

So for example, I could tack a 158 fitted out as a sleeper (or fitted out something like the CS seated sleeper) onto the last train from Edinburgh to Inverness, and then onto the morning Inverness to Thurso or Kyle of Lochalsh.

Theoretically** no more difficult than the bike carriages on the WHL.

**Not really

 

[6Gman]

By their very nature sleeper services are expensive.

Specialist vehicles, low utilisation, high staffing costs.

The existing services survive on a mixture of inertia and political convenience (Scottish MPs need to get to London; they rarely need to get to Exeter).

Tacking them onto other trains saves very little.

And fond though I am of 158s don't see much appeal in sleeping on one!

 

[Bald Rick]

So for example, I could tack a 158 fitted out as a sleeper (or fitted out something like the CS seated sleeper) onto the last train from Edinburgh to Inverness, and then onto the morning Inverness to Thurso or Kyle of Lochalsh.

Given that would mean spending 7.5 - 9.5 hours stationary at Inverness, wouldn’t it be rather easier and cheaper for the railway plus cheaper and more comfortable for passengers, just to book them* in The Royal Highland hotel next door in a pcakage deal?

*I’m being optimistic and assuming that there would be more than one passenger making this trip.

 

[Indigo Soup]

*I’m being optimistic and assuming that there would be more than one passenger making this trip.

There was the 'Midnight Train to Georgemas' study done for HITRANS unironically a while ago. They seemed to think there possible demand was there for a Far North line sleeper, but even on their figures the bulk of the demand was actually Central Belt to Inverness. Even in the most optimistic case - with 32,000 passengers per year - they reckoned on the farebox covering only 45% of costs.

Those were numbers they described as 'conservative' and I suspect anyone else would describe as 'hugely optimistic'.

Report: https://hitrans.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Midnight_Train_to_Georgemas_Study.pdf

Rolling stock study: https://hitrans.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/HITRANS_Rolling_Stock_Feasibility_Study.pdf

 

[Bald Rick]

There was the 'Midnight Train to Georgemas' study done for HITRANS unironically a while ago. They seemed to think there possible demand was there for a Far North line sleeper, but even on their figures the bulk of the demand was actually Central Belt to Inverness. Even in the most optimistic case - with 32,000 passengers per year - they reckoned on the farebox covering only 45% of costs.

Those were numbers they described as 'conservative' and I suspect anyone else would describe as 'hugely optimistic'.

Report: https://hitrans.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Midnight_Train_to_Georgemas_Study.pdf

Rolling stock study: https://hitrans.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/HITRANS_Rolling_Stock_Feasibility_Study.pdf

Yes, and if you search the forum for the thread discussing this at the time you will find some idiot suggesting it would have been cheaper to offer every potential passenger a door to door helicopter service.

 

[Chester1]

The opposite of the OP question:

If the Night Riveria survives until the sets are life expired, how could the Caledonian sleeper be altered to give up enough stock to keep the Night Riveria going? Potentially the Scottish government of the day would welcome sharing the Mark V fleet to reduce the subsidy.

 

[HSTEd]

Does anyone know if the gangways on the Mark 5As are fully mechanically compatible with the sleeper Mark 5s?
ie. if the sleeper vehicles were appropriately wired with jumpers, could they be used in a single formation?

Given that Mark 5A sets are available now, all that would be needed is the actual sleeper vehicles.