new trains for cathcart circle lines

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Failed Unit

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Rumour has it they won't be replaced until the order for the central belt EMUs arrives. Which I guess will be fairly soon if they are needed in 2016
 

NSEFAN

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The refurbished ones are quite good actually. I noticed a few weeks ago that the interiors were refurbished on most of the class, even though only a couple have been repainted.

I asked a driver what he thought of the new 380s, and he said they were the best thing since sliced bread!
 

jamesontheroad

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is it just me or does anyone else think the 314 needs replacing?
Although I don't have to deal with the morning and evening commute, I use the Cathcart Circle most days and think the trains are just fine. They are old, but mechanically they're in good condition. Delays and cancellations are usually the cause of signalling problems, not rolling stock failures.

Wearing my sociologist hat, I also think the 314s have a unique advantage on busy inner-city routes. With low-backed seating, every passengers has an immediate view of everyone in the carriage when boarding a train. I think there is something intrinsically more social and therefore passively safer about a train in which every passenger has eye contact with every other passenger. Few people may notice that, but I think it's a great feature of the older trains.
 

cj_1985

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Although I don't have to deal with the morning and evening commute, I use the Cathcart Circle most days and think the trains are just fine. They are old, but mechanically they're in good condition. Delays and cancellations are usually the cause of signalling problems, not rolling stock failures.

Wearing my sociologist hat, I also think the 314s have a unique advantage on busy inner-city routes. With low-backed seating, every passengers has an immediate view of everyone in the carriage when boarding a train. I think there is something intrinsically more social and therefore passively safer about a train in which every passenger has eye contact with every other passenger. Few people may notice that, but I think it's a great feature of the older trains.

because obviously the TOC & ROSCO agree on a refurb spec that includes new high back seats just for the sake of being anti social.:roll:

The 314s, though getting on a bit... are fit for their purpose, and while im sure some people would like to see them replaced, especially with other routes in West central Scotland recieving (or having recieved) new stock, or heavilly refurbished stock. Where is the point in sending them to the scrap yard when they still work , and have a medium term future already in place.

With the exception of a few scrapped carriages, a few 508s sat OOU at Eastleigh Works... all the other Pep based units are still in daily use all over the uk... why should the 314s be any different.
 

317666

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I think the PEP units do their job very well, they accelerate quickly, they're quite simple (no computer systems to go wrong, or to increase dwell times), they have wide doorways compared to Mk3-based EMUs for quicker boarding, as the saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it :)
 

alexf380

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IIRC, they are to be replaced under the rolling stock order for EGIP.
I totally agree that there is nothing wrong with them they're just old. The refurb is certainly brightening them up a bit and I think that they have a good few years left, perhaps sent south after ScotRail?
 

Aictos

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The refurbished ones are quite good actually. I noticed a few weeks ago that the interiors were refurbished on most of the class, even though only a couple have been repainted.

I asked a driver what he thought of the new 380s, and he said they were the best thing since sliced bread!
I reckon it's a safe bet that that's also shared by pretty much any traincrew in the area, ;)
 

cal12

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well thats just my opinion i guess, never been a big fan of the 314 i remember being young using them from scotstounhill to central all the time. as for the order for 2016 i hope they order more 4 car 380's i quite like them
 

D6975

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With the exception of a few scrapped carriages, a few 508s sat OOU at Eastleigh Works... all the other Pep based units are still in daily use all over the uk... why should the 314s be any different.
Not quite...
There's a fair few 508s in store somewhere else too.
Telford rings a bell, may be somewhere else tho..

Are these slowly being moved to Eastleigh for return to service??
 

Telcontar

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How do they compare to WAGN's 313s? (Which are now FCCs, but I've only travelled on them when they were with WAGN.)

I couldn't fault the 313s – spacious and comfortable. And that classic traction motor sound :)
 

DXMachina

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I only read it on here - so, rumour status unless confirmed by those with the authority - but apparently the stored 508s are totally life-expired through heavy use with little maintenance, and are no longer serviceable or economically recoverable.
 

cj_1985

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Not quite...
There's a fair few 508s in store somewhere else too.
Telford rings a bell, may be somewhere else tho..

Are these slowly being moved to Eastleigh for return to service??
IIRC they were all moved by rail to Eastleigh Works from telford mid/late 2011...
the ones in worse condition were moved by road
 

317666

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How do they compare to WAGN's 313s? (Which are now FCCs, but I've only travelled on them when they were with WAGN.)

I couldn't fault the 313s – spacious and comfortable. And that classic traction motor sound :)
The WAGN/FCC 313s have high-back seating (except for the three ex-NLL ones), so most people probably would find them more comfortable than the 314s which have the original low-back seats. 314s have a smoother ride though, as they use thyristor traction control, whereas the 313s use camshafts which is why they're a bit jolty.
 

jopsuk

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Presumably other than refurb status the 314s and 315s are pretty similar? the 315s main issue is quite astonishingly tatty they look on the outside- some have what looks like green mould growing on them. These units will form part of the frontline fleet getting people to and from the Olympic Park- really not a good look!
 

The_Stig

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They can be used up until 2020 unless a huge amount of cash is spent on them. Latest year I heard was 2017. That would support the introduction of new rolling stock.
 

rail-britain

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They can be used up until 2020 unless a huge amount of cash is spent on them
I can't find any reason why they would have to withdrawn or upgraded before 2020
They don't have toilets, so there is no issue there
Yes, they would need to have some additional equipment fitted (such as PIS), but this is all relatively simple and inexpensive
They would also need to have these silly door lights, but again this would be relatively simple

The only main issue would be passenger controlled door entry systems
However, there will still be other train types where there is not appropriate so I am quite sure there is an exclusion where this does not apply

Finally, there isn't actually anything within the new franchise specifying that the Class 314 units must be replaced and/or the new franchisee must take that into account, it only advises that new rolling stock must first be agreed with Transport Scotland if required (as the new franchisee has certain obligations with certain rolling stock)
 

prod_pep

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Presumably other than refurb status the 314s and 315s are pretty similar? the 315s main issue is quite astonishingly tatty they look on the outside- some have what looks like green mould growing on them. These units will form part of the frontline fleet getting people to and from the Olympic Park- really not a good look!
The 315s are essentially a 4 car version of the 314, but there are a few subtle differences. The 314s have a different seating arrangement, with only a single seat provided on either side of the door vestibules. The compressors are also different specifications: I don't know the names, but the 314s make a buzzing sound in contrast with the 315s chug. Otherwise, there is little to separate them.
 

rail-britain

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The compressors are also different specifications: I don't know the names, but the 314s make a buzzing sound in contrast with the 315s chug
I always assumed the Class 314 buzzed due to the live transformer (the Class 318 makes a similar noise)
The air compressor makes a very different noise
On a Class 314 is EP / Rheostatic and on a Class 315 it is Westcode
Basically this means the Class 314 applies the brake at a lower air pressure
Presumably this specification was for the long time spent within tunnels / underground, as it is the same as the Class 507
 

The_Stig

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I can't find any reason why they would have to withdrawn or upgraded before 2020
I am telling you what I have been told.


They don't have toilets, so there is no issue there
Yes, they would need to have some additional equipment fitted (such as PIS), but this is all relatively simple and inexpensive
They would also need to have these silly door lights, but again this would be relatively simple
If it was relatively inexpensive and easy it would have been done for the refurbishment that is currently taking place. PIS screens would require lighting to be moved/renewed. Not to mention the limited space for the ancillary equipment for these 'simple' systems.


The only main issue would be passenger controlled door entry systems
However, there will still be other train types where there is not appropriate so I am quite sure there is an exclusion where this does not apply
Grab handles at a certain height, Call For Aid Units to be fitted, new door armed and hustle alarms to mention a few others.


Finally, there isn't actually anything within the new franchise specifying that the Class 314 units must be replaced and/or the new franchisee must take that into account, it only advises that new rolling stock must first be agreed with Transport Scotland if required (as the new franchisee has certain obligations with certain rolling stock)
Exactly, Transport Scotland will have to agree to new trains since they will be buying them.
 

rail-britain

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Transport Scotland will have to agree to new trains since they will be buying them.
That is the present arrangement
Under the new arrangement the new franchisee will be free to utilise any rolling stock they like, and this includes second hand (current)
This allows greater flexibility, however there have been enough issues acquiring such rolling stock (by all TOCs)
 
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