New yellow hatching on platform edgings

[edwin_m]

While sampling the delights of the XC shuttle to Beeston last night I noticed that both Attenborough and Beeston stations have a new form of platform edge marking. As well as the normal white and yellow lines and tactiles, the concrete copers have been marked with yellow cross-hatching like a box junction. "KEEP CLEAR" has been painted at intervals on the "safe" side of the yellow line, presumably intended to keep people out of the area beyond the line but arguably more likely to achieve the opposite.

I've never seen this anywhere else - is it some new standard or just a local initiative? While Beeston platform is a bit narrow and may be busier than usual when one of the rare trains arrives there during the Nottingham blockade, the same can't be said of Attenborough.

 

[ModernRailways]

They have this at Northallerton and Chester Le Street up here. People do take notice and do stand behind, although there is always one who will go as close as is possible.

 

[RichmondCommu]

My mum's local station (Belper) has this too. I was thinking that this was perhaps being rolled out where the line speed is over 100 mph but I would be surprised if this was the case at Beeston?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There is yellow hatching at Wimbledon as well, but on the full width of the London ends of the platforms beynd where the 8 car strains stop and with huge painted words saying "No passengers beyond this point."

1) At least they're using the word "passengers".

2) Presumably all this paint - which is on a brand new platform surface - will have to be removed at some expense when the 10 car operation starts next year?

 

[A-driver]

They have been painted on platforms which have had fatalities on them 'recently' (not sure how recently but I believe past few years).

Not sure if its helping but it's part of the drive to reduce suicides and fatalities.

 

[dieselbashdave]

They have been painted on platforms which have had fatalities on them 'recently' (not sure how recently but I believe past few years).

Not sure if its helping but it's part of the drive to reduce suicides and fatalities.

I don't imagine that a yellow box will stop a suicide (unless it was covered in superglue to physically restrain them) but it would stop careless accidents caused by people getting too close to the platform edge. Provided they pay attention to it that is :roll:

I was wondering a few nights ago in bed why they don't have doors on platforms like they do on the Underground in some places. Came to the conclusion that it's probably too complicated, expensive, not worth it in a cost-benefit analysis, potentially unreliable (doors won't open thereby trapping passengers either on the train or on the platform) and prone to vandalism.

 

[Pumbaa]

Yes it is helping. The results have been encouraging so far. It will be rolled out further I imagine.

 

[A-driver]

I don't imagine that a yellow box will stop a suicide (unless it was covered in superglue to physically restrain them) but it would stop careless accidents caused by people getting too close to the platform edge. Provided they pay attention to it that is :roll:

I was wondering a few nights ago in bed why they don't have doors on platforms like they do on the Underground in some places. Came to the conclusion that it's probably too complicated, expensive, not worth it in a cost-benefit analysis, potentially unreliable (doors won't open thereby trapping passengers either on the train or on the platform) and prone to vandalism.

They don't have platform edge doors simply because mainline trains aren't a uniform stock like on the tube and so the doors are in different places. For example, take Stevenage station, it sees HST, mkIV, 180, 365, 317, 321 & 313s regularly calling there. Each of those trains has doors in a different position so straight away it would be a problem. Even at stations which only see one type of train regularly stopping there it could be an issue if a different class of train stops there out of course or they have to swap a unit etc.

 

[fairysdad]

I was wondering a few nights ago in bed why they don't have doors on platforms like they do on the Underground in some places. Came to the conclusion that it's probably too complicated, expensive, not worth it in a cost-benefit analysis, potentially unreliable (doors won't open thereby trapping passengers either on the train or on the platform) and prone to vandalism.

this comes up fairly frequently here... I think the general consensus is t hat Underground trains are far more uniform th than their national rail siblings in that they are fixed length, always stop in the same pace on platforms and are the same stock with identical doorpositions. Imagine a line served by 153s, 150s, and 143s... How would platform does work at such a station?

 

[HSTEd]

They have something in Singapore (or was it Kuala Lumpur?) which is a rope fence which is hoisted out of the way when a train arrives.
So only a small fraction of the platform has the posts in it and the rest can be "walked through"

 

[ModernRailways]

I don't imagine that a yellow box will stop a suicide (unless it was covered in superglue to physically restrain them) but it would stop careless accidents caused by people getting too close to the platform edge. Provided they pay attention to it that is :roll:

It's really helped at Chester Le Street and Northallerton. In fact, there has only been one (that I'm aware of) and that was a suicide. There haven't been any others and when I've been at those stations people always stand behind.

I was wondering a few nights ago in bed why they don't have doors on platforms like they do on the Underground in some places. Came to the conclusion that it's probably too complicated, expensive, not worth it in a cost-benefit analysis, potentially unreliable (doors won't open thereby trapping passengers either on the train or on the platform) and prone to vandalism.

Those platform doors on the Jubilee Line Extension (JLE) were installed due to the draught caused by trains approaching and not for the popular reason that it prevents suicides. If someone wants to jump there are plenty of other places to do it and most suicides (don't quote me on that) are in fact from bridges/lineside and not stations.

 

[transmanche]

Those platform doors on the Jubilee Line Extension (JLE) were installed due to the draught caused by trains approaching and not for the popular reason that it prevents suicides.

Exactly. They were only installed at the JLE stations which were below ground - the surface stations (Stratford, West Ham and Canning Town) do not have the platform edge doors.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's been said a couple of times on here before, but the sub surface platform edge doors on the Jubilee Line extension also meant that LUL could actually air condition the stations.

 

[table38]

Also some info and pictures here: http://railwayeye.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Cross-hatch%20Madness

 

[nathanclass323]

Could you not have these screens a bit further back from the platform edge? It would get in the way of some passengers but it would mean there would be a safer railway. Could this be implemented at stations like Duffield where there is a wide platform?

 

[A-driver]

Could you not have these screens a bit further back from the platform edge? It would get in the way of some passengers but it would mean there would be a safer railway. Could this be implemented at stations like Duffield where there is a wide platform?

For what purpose? You could just not let people onto the platform until the train has arrived if going down that road. But you would then need to staff the stations all the time incase the doors failed etc.

But then they won't ever do all stations. So people determined will just go to another station. Plus there are still plenty of foot crossings, level crossings, bridges etc that people can get into the line from should they wish to do so.

 

[455driver]

Could you not have these screens a bit further back from the platform edge? It would get in the way of some passengers but it would mean there would be a safer railway. Could this be implemented at stations like Duffield where there is a wide platform?

With the very real prospect of trapping people betwwen the platform edge doors/screens and the side of the train, yeah brilliant idea!

 

[edwin_m]

It's been said a couple of times on here before, but the sub surface platform edge doors on the Jubilee Line extension also meant that LUL could actually air condition the stations.

Not as they stand, as air can go over the top of the screen to pass between the track and platform areas. I believe the Crossrail stations will have the screens extended up to the ceiling to allow better ventilation of the platforms, possibly to do with smoke containment in an emergency rather than to provide air conditioning.

 

[dieselbashdave]

It's good to see that the hatching is working well. The use of varied units and coaching stock is something I forgot to add to my list of reasons why platform doors aren't used in mainline stations; d'oh there's always one that gets away! Well I suppose I could slip it in under it being too complicated/complex

 

[TBY-Paul]

Could you not have these screens a bit further back from the platform edge? It would get in the way of some passengers but it would mean there would be a safer railway. Could this be implemented at stations like Duffield where there is a wide platform?

With the very real prospect of trapping people betwwen the platform edge doors/screens and the side of the train, yeah brilliant idea!

But that problem could easily be over come. On the track side of the screen /door you put some sort of motion sensor that opens the doors, or something as simple as a push button. Its not really a problem.

Now the real question is "does the problem justify the expense"

 

[A-driver]

Now the real question is "does the problem justify the expense"

In a word, no.

If someone is that determined they will find another way-as I said earlier there are plenty of level crossings, low fences, bridges etc that people can use.

 

[edwin_m]

I suspect platform screen doors are only possible at stations where all trains stop or pass through slowly, because it would be difficult to design doors that would withstand the pressure pulse a few inches away from a passing high speed train. If the screens were set back a bit from the platform edge then anyone trapped would also be at risk of falling and being crushed as the train departed.

 

[TBY-Paul]

In a word, no.

If someone is that determined they will find another way-as I said earlier there are plenty of level crossings, low fences, bridges etc that people can use.

I agree.

You could never make a railway system a totally sterile, safe environment. Glass screens would possibly reduce accidental deaths at stations (drunks, boisterous behaviour that sort of thing). But as you say, the determined will find a way.

 

[ModernRailways]

In a word, no.

If someone is that determined they will find another way-as I said earlier there are plenty of level crossings, low fences, bridges etc that people can use.

Aren't most suicides at lineside locations and not at stations? I can't remember where I read it, but I'm sure most suicides were down at lineside locations. Stations were mostly people acting silly, standing too close to the edge etc.

 

[TBY-Paul]

I suspect platform screen doors are only possible at stations where all trains stop or pass through slowly, because it would be difficult to design doors that would withstand the pressure pulse a few inches away from a passing high speed train. If the screens were set back a bit from the platform edge then anyone trapped would also be at risk of falling and being crushed as the train departed.

But in the same way you wouldn't despatch with passengers stood near the train now, would you despatch a train with passengers still close to the train? I would assume the same procedures would be followed for despatching a train safely.

 

[edwin_m]

But in the same way you wouldn't despatch with passengers stood near the train now, would you despatch a train with passengers still close to the train? I would assume the same procedures would be followed for despatching a train safely.

Possibly so, in which case it would just be an operational headache not a primary safety issue. If there was a big gap between the screens and the trains then baggage/pets/children/adults would get into it and cause delay while they were extracted.

 

[DarloRich]

While sampling the delights of the XC shuttle to Beeston last night I noticed that both Attenborough and Beeston stations have a new form of platform edge marking. As well as the normal white and yellow lines and tactiles, the concrete copers have been marked with yellow cross-hatching like a box junction. "KEEP CLEAR" has been painted at intervals on the "safe" side of the yellow line, presumably intended to keep people out of the area beyond the line but arguably more likely to achieve the opposite.

I've never seen this anywhere else - is it some new standard or just a local initiative? While Beeston platform is a bit narrow and may be busier than usual when one of the rare trains arrives there during the Nottingham blockade, the same can't be said of Attenborough.

It is part of raft of suicide prevention measures being instigated at several stations around the country. Northallerton is an example that has been given. That was painted up over one night

I don't imagine that a yellow box will stop a suicide (unless it was covered in superglue to physically restrain them) but it would stop careless accidents caused by people getting too close to the platform edge. Provided they pay attention to it that is :roll:

Well you would be wrong.

There is scientific research based evidence to show that even something like the hatched painted areas can be enough to prevent people form taking their lives at that location.

It is to something to do with breaking the chain in the mind between forming the idea, developing the idea and using the idea. It essentially adds a "barrier" for the person to get over and that can be enough to divert the mind of the person away from their chosen course of action.

 

[wbbminerals]

Has anyone also noticed the 'mind the step' writing that has been painted on the edge of many platforms in West/North Yorkshire*, possibly all over the Northern network? They are presumably there to act in the railway's defense in case of future 'injury-lawyers-for-you' cases?

*At stations such as Church Fenton, Sherburn and Wakefield Kirkgate.

 

[A-driver]

Well you would be wrong.

There is scientific research based evidence to show that even something like the hatched painted areas can be enough to prevent people form taking their lives at that location.

It is to something to do with breaking the chain in the mind between forming the idea, developing the idea and using the idea. It essentially adds a "barrier" for the person to get over and that can be enough to divert the mind of the person away from their chosen course of action.

Indeed-in the same way that the Samaritans boards at hotspot stations have worked so far as well from what I have heard. Committing suicide isn't an easy thing to do and all you need to do is install a small element if doubt or as said breaking the focus that the person has on what they are doing.

 

[edwin_m]

Come to think of it I think there was a huge Samaritans poster at Attenbourough! I wasn't aware this was a suicide hotspot but it sounds like someone has decided it is.