Newark 12 December 2021 - Disruption?

[Marton]

Presently on 1E15 north of Newark. Just had an announcement of “total points failure”.
The Open Trains Map was showing a block on both up and down lines at Newark. That has now disappeared.

Does anyone have any more info?

 

[londonmidland]

Massive queue of trains around the Newark area. There’s more trains queuing, off the screen.

 

[Mojo]

An announcement has just been made, that all lines are now open, however looking on the Traksy map, there appears to be 10 trains on the Up line between Retford and Newark (North Gate)!

 

[norbitonflyer]

Problem seems to have occurred about 11am,as the 1040 exLeeds got through the area (and on to Kings Cross) unscathed but the 1105 (Ex Harrogate) spent more than an hour in the platform at Newark. Whether the Harrogate service was the problem, or happened to be first on the scene after a PW fault isn't clear, but the fact that following trains were not diverted via Platform 3 is suggestive of the former. It may be significant that a London - Lincoln service passed through Newark shortly before the Harrogate - this would have had to cross the up main by a ladder junction south of the station. Could the points failure have been on that crossing?
(I've suggested before that the use of that ladder crossing, blocking the up main, could be avoided by sending Lincoln trains by the Wennington diveunder and Spalding!)

 

[yorkie]

There is now a queue of trains from both directions at Doncaster

(I've suggested before that the use of that ladder crossing, blocking the up main, could be avoided by sending Lincoln trains by the Wennington diveunder and Spalding!)

Feel free to edit your post above to link to the speculative discussion thread in question in case it's of interest to anyone reading this

 

[Saint66]

I’m on one of the delayed (as a result of the earlier disruption) services from Leeds to London, and we’re being held just north of Doncaster due to a vulnerable person on the line.

Wait, we’re on the move!

 

[Buggleskelly]

I was on the 1130 EDB-KGX and got caught up in this. At one point we were number 8 in the queue waiting to go southbound. Every so often the train would start up for a few mins, travel for a few miles then stop. This carried on for over an hour until we were first in the queue. We were then told that Network Rail were giving it another try to fix the problem and we were at a standstill for best part of half hour, longest of all the stops. We were told at one point it was a problem with the points then that changed to the signalling system. We arrived into Kings Cross approximately 2 hours late.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I was on the 1300 Kings Cross to Edinburgh, we got caught in a queue just as the line was handed back over. We ended up 40 minutes late due to the trains being cautioned through Newark North Gate.

It seemed to only affect southbound trains for a while, but then the line closure kyboshed anything going north.

Annoyingly, this also meant we missed our path north of York and ended up behind an XC which did Durham and Alnmouth, when ours was the faster Edinburgh.

 

[yorkie]

Annoyingly, this also meant we missed our path north of York and ended up behind an XC which did Durham and Alnmouth, when ours was the faster Edinburgh.

This is very common; regulation on the East Coast Mainline often seems poor to me.

 

[Horizon22]

There is now a queue of trains from both directions at Doncaster

Feel free to edit your post above to link to the speculative discussion thread in question in case it's of interest to anyone reading this

I am surprised that signallers / Control let trains build up that much for such a long period of time. Often times they will want to keep trains at stations to reduce the risk of self-evacuation. I appreciate on the ECML the larger that normal gaps between stations though.

 

[43094]

The cause was excess ballast preventing the points moving correctly.

 

[Scotrail314209]

This is very common; regulation on the East Coast Mainline often seems poor to me.

Granted the XC was over an hour late, but I do think more delay could’ve been avoided by letting us overtake at Newcastle or Durham due to the fact we had the least amount of stops.

We ended up stopped behind the XC twice due to the fact it did both Alnmouth and Berwick, we were on its tail from Newcastle

 

[robbeech]

The cause was excess ballast preventing the points moving correctly.

Goodness me, a lot of disruption for the sake of a bit of stone to shift about.

 

[DanNCL]

Poor regulation is common on the ECML, especially the northern half. I do have to wonder how much of it is down to too much reliance on ARS (automatic route setting) and not enough manual intervention from the signallers to minimise delays. ARS if left to it will usually keep services in the booked order, even when doing so will cause additional disruption.

Granted the XC was over an hour late, but I do think more delay could’ve been avoided by letting us overtake at Newcastle or Durham due to the fact we had the least amount of stops.

Overtaking at Durham is difficult. If the XC was anything longer than a single voyager it couldn’t be overtaken in the platform (as the block overlaps onto the through line) and would have had to move forward into the loop after the station before the LNER service could overtake - by that point you may as well let it carry on to Newcastle and overtake there. That of course is assuming the LNER service was one that skipped Durham, if the LNER service also stopped at Durham then overtaking the XC there would have been a non starter.

It is possible to overtake at Darlington even when both services stop there, though doing so requires the platform usually used for the opposite direction to be available for a long enough period of time, so is usually avoided.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Poor regulation is common on the ECML, especially the northern half. I do have to wonder how much of it is down to too much reliance on ARS (automatic route setting) and not enough manual intervention from the signallers to minimise delays. ARS if left to it will usually keep services in the booked order, even when doing so will cause additional disruption.


Overtaking at Durham is difficult. If the XC was anything longer than a single voyager it couldn’t be overtaken in the platform (as the block overlaps onto the through line) and would have had to move forward into the loop after the station before the LNER service could overtake - by that point you may as well let it carry on to Newcastle and overtake there. That of course is assuming the LNER service was one that skipped Durham, if the LNER service also stopped at Durham then overtaking the XC there would have been a non starter.

It is possible to overtake at Darlington even when both services stop there, though doing so requires the platform usually used for the opposite direction to be available for a long enough period of time, so is usually avoided.

The XC was a 9 car splitting at Edinburgh. Our calling pattern was York > Darlington > Newcastle > Berwick > Edinburgh

I think we just missed stopping for the XC at Darlington but I’m surprised they didn’t hold them at Newcastle.

 

[800001]

I am surprised that signallers / Control let trains build up that much for such a long period of time. Often times they will want to keep trains at stations to reduce the risk of self-evacuation. I appreciate on the ECML the larger that normal gaps between stations though.

On a normal day they would of terminated services short, and sent sets back north, however as most services were extremely heavily loaded, decision was to run all services with delay.

 

[Horizon22]

On a normal day they would of terminated services short, and sent sets back north, however as most services were extremely heavily loaded, decision was to run all services with delay.

I don’t disagree about running services, more where they should be held.

 

[robbeech]

I don’t disagree about running services, more where they should be held.

Indeed although I guess looking at the numbers there’s aren’t really enough stations to hold trains there. 3A and 1 at Doncaster to avoid blocking the crossover. 1 at Retford. (plus 2 if there’s nothing calling northbound I guess). In the opposite direction they’re not going to want to block 4 at Grantham for too long I wouldn’t think.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed although I guess looking at the numbers there’s aren’t really enough stations to hold trains there. 3A and 1 at Doncaster to avoid blocking the crossover. 1 at Retford. (plus 2 if there’s nothing calling northbound I guess). In the opposite direction they’re not going to want to block 4 at Grantham for too long I wouldn’t think.

Yes the ECML is a bit of a difficult case - given the number of trains on that map you'd probably be backing up to York or beyond!

 

[norbitonflyer]

The cause was excess ballast preventing the points moving correctly.

Where was this? The ladder crossing south of Newark Northgate?

 

[Kite159]

I got caught up with it yesterday (was on the 1315 Newcastle to London Kings Cross from Doncaster). Thankfully it was a double 5 coach unit where it looked like all the reservations were in the rear 5 coaches as I was in the 2nd coach from the front and there was one other passenger in the standard class area, so nice to be able to spread out).

Very stop-start as it joined the queue (think when it first joined the queue it was 14th in line, got to 4th before NR blocked the line to try and fix the issues for ~ 25 minutes). Got into London around 1 hour 45 minutes late which isn't the worst delay I've had on the ECML recently.

Did any of the Bi-modes get sent via Lincoln to bypass the issues, assuming that route was open for trains and staff had the route knowledge?

(The service which departed less than 10 minutes beforehand from Doncaster was a 5 coach unit from Harrogate which looked very busy)

 

[Marton]

Did any of the Bi-modes get sent via Lincoln to bypass the issues, assuming that route was open for trains and staff had the route knowledge?

I was on an Aberdeen to KGX and we didn’t (no idea of unit number, but obviously bi-mode).

I thought the Spalding route was 24/7 following its re-signalling. Maybe not.

 

[merry]

I was on an Aberdeen to KGX and we didn’t (no idea of unit number, but obviously bi-mode).

I thought the Spalding route was 24/7 following its re-signalling. Maybe not.

Depends on crew route knowledge...we know how variable that is on diversionary routes these days. Ad-hoc diversions can be quite difficult to arrange for that reason, even when reasonable to consider.
E.g. a few years ago, was coming out of KGX when we were held before Alex Palace, driver & guard were asked by the signaller if they signed the Hertford loop - they did, so off for a scenic tour of Hertfordshire. Got us round an issue south of Welwyn though, with only limited delay. Not every service was so lucky.
Thee was a time when early/late/Sundaymorning services were planned on diversionaries (e.g. Rotherham-Sheffield via Tinsley & Woodburn junctions), seems less common now.