Newspapers

[4SRKT]

In what sense? Are you deriding everyone else who chooses to read a different newspaper than you? Feel a little bit bigger for that do you? Enjoy looking down your pointy long nose with a holier then thou attitude due to you reading the Guardian do you?

Think your better than me do you?

If the Guardian was that lauded a paper amongst the 'Enthusiast' community then why the hell are people not buying it?

1) Yes, although it comes from a natural superiority rather than from anything to do with reading the Grauniad.

2) Absolutely yes, certainly at English grammar.

3) Because some of them are right wing wingnuts? Or just stoopid? (Is there a difference BTW?)

 

[90019]

In what sense? Are you deriding everyone else who chooses to read a different newspaper than you? Feel a little bit bigger for that do you? Enjoy looking down your pointy long nose with a holier then thou attitude due to you reading the Guardian do you?

Think your better than me do you?

If the Guardian was that lauded a paper amongst the 'Enthusiast' community then why the hell are people not buying it?

Someone hit a nerve, have they?

 

[4SRKT]

Right Winger baiting is a very enjoyable sport, although not without its risks. Sorry Mods, I'll stop doing it now.

 

[Oswyntail]

Right Winger baiting is a very enjoyable sport, although not without its risks. Sorry Mods, I'll stop doing it now.

You think that's fun? Try left-Winger baiting! (I try to do both indiscriminately)

 

[LE Greys]

If the Guardian was that lauded a paper amongst the 'Enthusiast' community then why the hell are people not buying it?

It's not big enough. If you want to jot down loco numbers whilst pretending to do the sudoku, you need a broadsheet. It also helps when you don't want to be disturbed. It also depends on who I'm meeting, if I know the sort of people, I sometimes buy it to impress them with how liberal I am.

 

[LadyDeltic]

The Independent, but only really for Robert Fisk's contributions.

 

[Harbon 1]

Good to see the Grauniad winning. At least there is some sense in the enthusiast community if not the wider world.

OK, so Metro has the same score at the mo, but that's a free sheet given out at stations, so it's hardly surprising railway enthusiasts, who spend a lot of time at stations, and like free things, read it. It's not a newspaper though: you get about as much information and intellectual stimulation from reading the safety notices on a 150.

I've only ever once read the metro whilst at a station, I usually pick it up for a quick flick through on the bus, or when I haven't got a magazine to read on the train. Although that's mostly because i hardly ever go out photographing on a week day.

Who doesnt like free things

Edit: I'd like to get into I, maybe I'll try it next time I'm out. Does anyone know if it's any good?

 

[Ferret]

Why is it good to see the Grauniad winning? Yet another paper that tells people what they should be thinking... because of course, heaven forbid we should be intelligent enough to form our own opinions.

 

[Johnuk123]

Why is it good to see the Grauniad winning? Yet another paper that tells people what they should be thinking... because of course, heaven forbid we should be intelligent enough to form our own opinions.

I have known a few Guardian readers and everyone without exception had an inbuilt anti-English attitude.

The massive amount of nationalism and flag waving because of the Jubilee/Olympics is something that they simply detest.

I think the patriotism we are seeing which of course is very un-liberal will stay with us for a very long time.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I have known a few Guardian readers and everyone without exception had an inbuilt anti-English attitude.

The massive amount of nationalism and flag waving because of the Jubilee/Olympics is something that they simply detest.

I think the patriotism we are seeing which of course is very un-liberal will stay with us for a very long time.

Hilarious!

 

[ainsworth74]

I think the patriotism we are seeing which of course is very un-liberal will stay with us for a very long time.

I would be interested to see how patriotism is un-liberal?

 

[Johnuk123]

I would be interested to see how patriotism is un-liberal?

How can you possibly be patriotic and liberal.

A true liberal would see themselves as a citizen of the world.

The vast majority of liberals are enthusiastic Europhiles.They wish to see England absorbed into a federal superstate which has no independent countries in it.


"There is no need for patriotic citizenship in a multicultural scociety"
Nick Clegg - 2008.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

You still haven't explained why it is, apparently "unliberal" to be patriotic (note, I mean truly patriotic rather than the way it has been hijacked by such organisations as the BNP and the EDL).

 

[Johnuk123]

You still haven't explained why it is, apparently "unliberal" to be patriotic (note, I mean truly patriotic rather than the way it has been hijacked by such organisations as the BNP and the EDL).

Good move on your part to intoduce the BNP into the debate so as to try and completely alter the conversation.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Good move on your part to intoduce the BNP into the debate so as to try and completely alter the conversation.

Please explain why it is 'unliberal' to be patriotic.

 

[Johnuk123]

Please explain why it is 'unliberal' to be patriotic.

I have explained it as you well know.

Why don't you tell me what a true patriot is ?

 

[ainsworth74]

How can you possibly be patriotic and liberal.

A true liberal would see themselves as a citizen of the world.

The vast majority of liberals are enthusiastic Europhiles.They wish to see England absorbed into a federal superstate which has no independent countries in it.

I don't know what definitions of patriotism and liberalism you're using but they differ from mine and a lot of other peoples. The Oxford Dictionary defines patriotism as follows:

noun
the quality of being patriotic; vigorous support for one’s country

The definition of a liberal again from the Oxford Dictionary:

adjective

willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one’s own; open to new ideas:

• favourable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms
  
• (in a political context) favouring individual liberty, free trade, and moderate political and social reform
  
• (Liberal)
  relating to Liberals or a Liberal Party, especially (in the UK) relating to the Liberal Democrat party:
  
• Theology regarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change.

A further definition of Liberalism sourced from Wikipedia:

Liberalism is a broad political ideology or worldview founded on the ideas of liberty and equality Liberals espouse a wide array of views depending on their understanding of these principles, but generally liberals support ideas such as capitalism (either regulated or not), constitutionalism, liberal democracy, free and fair elections, human rights and the free exercise of religion.

I fail to see how being supportive of your country excludes someone from holding a liberal viewpoint (and vice versa)?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I have explained it as you well know.

Why don't you tell me what a true patriot is ?

No you haven't, you've just said a liberal cannot be patriotic.

What do you think patriotism is?

 

[Johnuk123]

No you haven't, you've just said a liberal cannot be patriotic.

What do you think patriotism is?

It's just been googled above and entirely proves my point.

Liberals don't believe in the nation state.The only flag they want to see waved is the stupid Euro one.

You only have to listen to a Liberal party conference they are packed with pro Europe speeches.

The ususal left wing radicals will rant about how slavery was all our fault and we don't give enough to Africa.You won't get anybody celebrating English achievements because they only see bad things

You only have to look at Nick Clegg the preposterous leader who has no affection for this country whatsoever.

If ever a good reason could be given for never voting for the liberals it's that bloke.


You'll be telling me next you can be patriotic about Europe.

 

[Ferret]

This could get quite tedious.........!

 

[Johnuk123]

This could get quite tedious.........!

I was thinking the same myself.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's just been googled above and entirely proves my point.

Liberals don't believe in the nation state.The only flag they want to see waved is the stupid Euro one.

What? In what way does anything I've quoted demonstrate that liberalism* doesn't believe in the nation state?

* note that this doesn't mean the Lib-Dems it means the ideals of liberalism there is a very big difference between the two

 

[WestCoast]

The issue of European integration is not at the core of the ideology of liberalism. Neither is the suppression of patriotic views and the nation state. I am not really sure how you could arrive at that conclusion.

That's not to say that some liberals support European integration, but many will appreciate its drawbacks and suggested limitations I'm sure. As has already been pointed out, the Liberal Democrats and liberalism are not synonymous.

My own personal view, and it's not necessarily a popular one, is that while European integration is littered with drawbacks and 'gravy trains', many people in this country don't really understand the EU, EEA, EFTA and the ECHR and take whatever Farage says at face value without really considering the issues behind the sound bites and headlines.

The papers, the most popular in terms of readership being Eurosceptic or in certain cases (e.g. DM) 'Europhobic', hold a lot of sway here. Rarely do you ever hear about the positives in terms of trade and free market principles, as well as co-operation on issues such as cross-border crime. That said, I do very much support the notion of nation states and their sovereignty.