Newton-le-Willows Platform Extension

[TheGrew]

I spotted notices for platform extension work when going to buy a ticket for tomorrow morning.
Planning details here:

P/2023/0318/PN18 | Prior notification under Part 18, Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order for extension of the existing 2no platforms at Newton-le-Willows Railway Station.

publicaccess.sthelens.gov.uk

P/2023/0319/LBC | Listed building consent for works regarding the extension of the existing 2no platforms at Newton-le-Willows Railway Station. | N

publicaccess.sthelens.gov.uk

I am certainly pleased as a regular user of the station this is going ahead. These days the longest typical formation is 6 cars of 331 or 323 or 5 cars of 802 which nearly fit but not quite. With the existing signal sighting adding additional length on the eastern end always looked like a comparatively 'simple' job.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Work was going on today off the end of the Manchester platform - I wondered what it was.

 

[Halish Railway]

I spotted notices for platform extension work when going to buy a ticket for tomorrow morning.
Planning details here:

P/2023/0318/PN18 | Prior notification under Part 18, Schedule 2 of the Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order for extension of the existing 2no platforms at Newton-le-Willows Railway Station.

publicaccess.sthelens.gov.uk

P/2023/0319/LBC | Listed building consent for works regarding the extension of the existing 2no platforms at Newton-le-Willows Railway Station. | N

publicaccess.sthelens.gov.uk

I am certainly pleased as a regular user of the station this is going ahead. These days the longest typical formation is 6 cars of 331 or 323 or 5 cars of 802 which nearly fit but not quite. With the existing signal sighting adding additional length on the eastern end always looked like a comparatively 'simple' job.

I'd imagine that the works are almost entirely motivated by the need to accommodate pairs of 323s which do not feature SDO for Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street services.

 

[urbophile]

Are there any plans to improve the frequency of trains there? From Liverpool there seem to be only two trains an hour (one fast, one slow) within a few minutes of each other which means effectively 1tph. It rather makes a mockery of the Merseyrail branding.

 

[scrapy]

Are there any plans to improve the frequency of trains there? From Liverpool there seem to be only two trains an hour (one fast, one slow) within a few minutes of each other which means effectively 1tph. It rather makes a mockery of the Merseyrail branding.

Not much of an increase but Northern are proposing an hourly Stalybridge to Lime St (peak times only) from December. All stops except Eccles and Patricroft. Additional Eccles and Patricroft stops are proposed on the Wigan NW to Victoria shuttles. Would make both Victoria to Stalybridge and Newton to Whiston half hourly in the peaks.

 

[Bevan Price]

Are there any plans to improve the frequency of trains there? From Liverpool there seem to be only two trains an hour (one fast, one slow) within a few minutes of each other which means effectively 1tph. It rather makes a mockery of the Merseyrail branding.

There used to be two stopping trains per hour between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria, until one was wastefully diverted at Earlestown to Warrington Bank Quay (but was woefully underused in terms of passenger numbers). The Warrington service declined almost to zero post-Covid. An "Airport Express" with limited stops was introduced, but has since been sacrificed to make space for Trans Pennine service. That was replaced by just one stopping train per hour between Liverpool and Manchester Airport, with trains mostly (but no longer) extended to Crewe. There are also a hanful of peak hour services serving Liverpool to Manchester Victoria. That leaves the rather poor service of one local per hour between Liverpool and Earlestown. East of Earlestown, the newish Northern service between Chester and Leeds supplements the Transport for Wales express services, but Eccles & Patricroft only get one train per hour - Eccles in particular needs more trains.

Some planners will probably say otherwise, but I think that if the peak hour services between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria are possible, then it ought to be feasible to reinstate an all-day hourly service between those stations.

 

[Halish Railway]

Not much of an increase but Northern are proposing an hourly Stalybridge to Lime St (peak times only) from December. All stops except Eccles and Patricroft. Additional Eccles and Patricroft stops are proposed on the Wigan NW to Victoria shuttles. Would make both Victoria to Stalybridge and Newton to Whiston half hourly in the peaks.

Are they expecting the wires between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge to be live by then?

 

[childwallblues]

There used to be two stopping trains per hour between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria, until one was wastefully diverted at Earlestown to Warrington Bank Quay (but was woefully underused in terms of passenger numbers). The Warrington service declined almost to zero post-Covid. An "Airport Express" with limited stops was introduced, but has since been sacrificed to make space for Trans Pennine service. That was replaced by just one stopping train per hour between Liverpool and Manchester Airport, with trains mostly (but no longer) extended to Crewe. There are also a hanful of peak hour services serving Liverpool to Manchester Victoria. That leaves the rather poor service of one local per hour between Liverpool and Earlestown. East of Earlestown, the newish Northern service between Chester and Leeds supplements the Transport for Wales express services, but Eccles & Patricroft only get one train per hour - Eccles in particular needs more trains.

Some planners will probably say otherwise, but I think that if the peak hour services between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria are possible, then it ought to be feasible to reinstate an all-day hourly service between those stations.

Spot on Bevan. What is worse is that the one surviving all stations service between Liverpool and Manchester Airport via NLW is normally a three car 323 or 331 which is woefully inadequate for the amount of passengers that use the service. All of the stations between Edge Hill and Newton-le-Willows need to be six car.

 

[TheGrew]

It looks to me like they have already marked out the extension, indeed, the wooden gates are a new addition.

 

[Viscount702]

The planning docs indicate that the Liverpool bound platform can fully accommodate a 6 car train but the Manchester bound only five and a half. How does that fit with a 6 car 323

 

[TheGrew]

That's odd as they look to be the same length to me unless they allow greater overhang onto the viaduct. Interestingly if you look at Google maps satellite view you can see an 802 overhanging the Liverpool-bound platform. https://goo.gl/maps/3ihGVvQysYxwsB8A9

 

[frodshamfella]

friend of mine lives up the road from Roby Station. She is always saying how poor the service has become. Would she be getting just the Lime Street - Man Vic stopper too ?.

 

[Mollman]

friend of mine lives up the road from Roby Station. She is always saying how poor the service has become. Would she be getting just the Lime Street - Man Vic stopper too ?.

Roby also gets the Wigan - Lime Street stoppers, I think these only returned to half-hourly in May.

 

[mcnw35282]

This is why I've switched to using St Helens Central (which is a 10 min drive away) instead of junction (which is a 2 min walk away). I was becoming seriously cheesed off with crush-loaded trains pulling up...was impossible to get any new passengers on.

 

[TC7]

What other stations on the line need extending to accommodate 6 car trains? I know Eccles is long enough as I use it often but I'm pretty sure there's a fair few that need extending

 

[childwallblues]

What other stations on the line need extending to accommodate 6 car trains? I know Eccles is long enough as I use it often but I'm pretty sure there's a fair few that need extending

Both Eccles and Patricroft would be easy to extend as they were originally far longer than now. The problem is at the Merseyside stations. Huyton and Roby were rebuilt during the electrification work in 2014 so should be ok. Wavertree Technology Park Lea Green and Whiston are stations built in the modern era and are likely to be too short. The others are Edge Hill, Broad Green. Rainhill, St Helens Junction and Earlestown which as far as I know have all been shortened at some point and would require extending.

 

[urbophile]

Both Eccles and Patricroft would be easy to extend as they were originally far longer than now. The problem is at the Merseyside stations. Huyton and Roby were rebuilt during the electrification work in 2014 so should be ok. Wavertree Technology Park Lea Green and Whiston are stations built in the modern era and are likely to be too short. The others are Edge Hill, Broad Green. Rainhill, St Helens Junction and Earlestown which as far as I know have all been shortened at some point and would require extending.

Edge Hill as I recall still has very long platforms (albeit long stretches out of use); should be easily brought back to life.

 

[scrapy]

Are they expecting the wires between Manchester Victoria and Stalybridge to be live by then?

Yes, Northern proposing 4 car class 331s on the service

 

[8A Rail]

Both Eccles and Patricroft would be easy to extend as they were originally far longer than now. The problem is at the Merseyside stations. Huyton and Roby were rebuilt during the electrification work in 2014 so should be ok. Wavertree Technology Park Lea Green and Whiston are stations built in the modern era and are likely to be too short. The others are Edge Hill, Broad Green. Rainhill, St Helens Junction and Earlestown which as far as I know have all been shortened at some point and would require extending.

None of those stations highlighted have been shortened in anyway, they are all the original lengths especially St Helens Junction and Earlestown (since I have taken active interest in railways in 1980). I think Rainhill platforms have been updated especially during the electrification works but no suggestion it was shortened bar the elimination of the ramps. Edge Hill Station can accommodate longer length trains as again the platforms remain, just need tidying up and some maintenance.

 

[Class 170101]

There used to be two stopping trains per hour between Liverpool and Manchester Victoria, until one was wastefully diverted at Earlestown to Warrington Bank Quay (but was woefully underused in terms of passenger numbers).

The advantage of the Warrington Bank Quay connection is the link to services to the North and South of England without having to go into Manchester or Liverpool. Remember as well Liverpool is mostly 1tph to London.

The other advantage it gives is that it can call at intermediate stations from Liverpool be caught up by a faster train but divert to Warrington Bank Quay without impeding the faster train's progress towards Mancheter. In the reverse direction it can be right behind a faster train and call at intermediate stations to Liverpool where as a stopper from Manchester is even further behind the same faster train.

The Warrington service declined almost to zero post-Covid.

Poorly used or its links to the WCML poorly advertised?

 

[507 001]

Huyton and Roby were rebuilt during the electrification work in 2014 so should be ok.

Both can only take 5 cars (just about) and will need extending. Shouldn’t be too difficult to do, but should have been done in 2014.

 

[8A Rail]

Yes, Northern proposing 4 car class 331s on the service

Should happen towards end of this year, swapping for 3 car Class 331/0's. So unlikely to see any double heading with either Class 331/1's or Class 323's either, so no need for platform extensions other than Lea Green and Newton le Willows for TPT (TPEx) trains I think.

 

[DJH1971]

Yes, Northern proposing 4 car class 331s on the service

Thought the 4 car 331/1's were sent to Yorkshire?

 

[Halish Railway]

Thought the 4 car 331/1's were sent to Yorkshire?

There will be an exchange of subclasses between now and the timetable change between Neville Hill and Allerton depots. As far as I know not all 331/1s are going west and not all 331/0s are going east - I don't know how many of each unit are being transferred.

 

[childwallblues]

There will be an exchange of subclasses between now and the timetable change between Neville Hill and Allerton depots. As far as I know not all 331/1s are going west and not all 331/0s are going east - I don't know how many of each unit are being transferred.

Allerton originally had six 331/1 which normally operated on Liverpool to Blackpool North/Wigan North Western services. Theses services are currently being operated mainly by 319s.

 

[8A Rail]

Allerton originally had six 331/1 which normally operated on Liverpool to Blackpool North/Wigan North Western services. Theses services are currently being operated mainly by 319s.

That was in 2020 but only seemed like yesterday. If I recall they were all loco hauled across the Pennines for the transfer too. This is one image of 331103 approaching Huyton - https://www.flickr.com/photos/8arail/49821158252/in/album-72157713269514288/

(In the meantime and for the record, my loco station, Whiston, is only able to take four car units)

 

[Bevan Price]

The advantage of the Warrington Bank Quay connection is the link to services to the North and South of England without having to go into Manchester or Liverpool. Remember as well Liverpool is mostly 1tph to London.

The other advantage it gives is that it can call at intermediate stations from Liverpool be caught up by a faster train but divert to Warrington Bank Quay without impeding the faster train's progress towards Mancheter. In the reverse direction it can be right behind a faster train and call at intermediate stations to Liverpool where as a stopper from Manchester is even further behind the same faster train.


Poorly used or its links to the WCML poorly advertised?

The problem was that hardly any passengers used those trains between Earlestown and Warrington Bank Quay. When I was photographing at Winwick, it was rare to see more than 5-10 passengers on them. It would have been much more useful for the trains to serve Manchester instead of Warrington.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some clearance work going on today at the eastern end of the westbound platform.
Looks like they might have to take up some of the track that used to feed the Parkside colliery site on the south side of the line.

 

[dunc695]

The problem was that hardly any passengers used those trains between Earlestown and Warrington Bank Quay. When I was photographing at Winwick, it was rare to see more than 5-10 passengers on them. It would have been much more useful for the trains to serve Manchester instead of Warrington.

Plus there's already a frequent service between Lime St and Warrington Central, sending another to Bank Quay just feels like a waste. I agree trains are better going to Manchester. Anyone wanting BQ via Chat Moss can always change onto one of the North Wales or Chester bound services at Earlestown which are fairly regular since the Leeds - Chester service started.

 

[8A Rail]

Plus there's already a frequent service between Lime St and Warrington Central, sending another to Bank Quay just feels like a waste. I agree trains are better going to Manchester.

Yes may be a frequent service on the CLC line to / from Warrington Central (#) but neither use or ornament to the people who live on the Chat Moss line which has a wide catchment area.

(#) Since the new timetable, not all Northern Trains stop at every station now, for some stations it has gone back to an hourly service again!

Anyone wanting BQ via Chat Moss can always change onto one of the North Wales or Chester bound services at Earlestown which are fairly regular since the Leeds - Chester service started.

True, but the issue still remains, an one hourly service on the Chat Moss line so defeats the object of the exercise. In the past I had used the WBQ train to / from Liverpool Area as it was useful for a number of reasons, even used the half hour L&M service at that time for photography purposes at various stations but these days I use my car instead!