Next 50 Bids for reopenings

[cle]

What does 'East Didsbury to Stockport' mean? Is that Metrolink extension? Why is that in a reopening/'Beeching' initiative? Along with additional frequencies on existing routes?! That is not a reopening - no more than a passing loop in Bricket Wood was! Urgh. So many things here should not be in this list - not to mention half of the valid 'reopenings' being bonkers.

I used to live near Camberwell. It would be very useful, and well used - but can see the expense and the slowing down of journeys being a disbenefit. Shame as it was the commiseration sop they were thrown for being denied their Bakerloo spur to Denmark Hill (now also probably dead). Plus shouldn't it be in the new stations initiative!

I've always quite liked the symmetry and connectivity of Honeybourne, but it's not critical by any means. And I'd prefer Chiltern take on more in the Oxford area personally.

 

[The Planner]

Chiltern can be used for diversions but Marylebone is currently full and can't easily be expanded.

You are looking at that the wrong way, you are diverting people, not necessarily trains. It happens now and Chiltern where they can strengthen. You can divert back onto the WCML without requiring Marylebone.

 

[Ianno87]

What does 'East Didsbury to Stockport' mean? Is that Metrolink extension? Why is that in a reopening/'Beeching' initiative? Along with additional frequencies on existing routes?! That is not a reopening - no more than a passing loop in Bricket Wood was! Urgh. So many things here should not be in this list - not to mention half of the valid 'reopenings' being bonkers.

I'd rather it not be a predetermined outcome of spending money on a headline-grabbing heavy rail reopening.

In many cases, money will be better invested and benefit more people by developing light rail, or increasing frequencies on an existing route.

 

[cle]

I'd rather it not be a predetermined outcome of spending money on a headline-grabbing heavy rail reopening.

In many cases, money will be better invested and benefit more people by developing light rail, or increasing frequencies on an existing route.

Agreed, and Metrolink have done this better than anybody, consistently. That is a light rail project though, and should be considered separate from NR PR pieces.

 

[jh64]

The ones I have heard about are mostly from new Tory northern MP's. The 5 called out above are all in Tory constituencies. It is a PR puff designed to make the government look like they care. It is an almost total waste of time especially if a payback within this parliament is expected.

I know i am very cynical and I also recognise that many of you are not. I stand by my views and I suspect they will be proved right.

The Consett/Newcastle bid is a perfect example of this; the old route and the station site are long gone with plenty of roads and new houses in their place. Unless the new MP plans to start digging tunnels under Leadgate and Stanley, it's all hot air and the Consett nightlife experience will sadly remain cut off to rail passengers.

 

[Bald Rick]

I can't see the KL- Hunstanton line ever opening again, despite the blatant benefits that it would bring the local area (a massive reduction in congestion on the Hunstanton road every time there's a vague suggestion of a few seconds of sunshine for one).

The idea that a line like this would lead to a massive reduction in road congestion on the parallel road is simply fantasy. The people who are on that road causing congestion will be coming from various places and going to various places; very few of them would even be able to switch to a rail service, let alone actually do so. One only has to look at the roads approaching any rail connected coastal resort on a sunny day for evidence.

 

[J-Rod]

The idea that a line like this would lead to a massive reduction in road congestion on the parallel road is simply fantasy. The people who are on that road causing congestion will be coming from various places and going to various places; very few of them would even be able to switch to a rail service, let alone actually do so. One only has to look at the roads approaching any rail connected coastal resort on a sunny day for evidence.

Whoops. Sorry, sir *scuttles back off into hole where I rightfully belong*

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I really think we are in a "paralysis by analysis situation" right now.

 

[DarloRich]

I really think we are in a "paralysis by analysis situation" right now.

I don't think we are. We are in a situation of misdirection, spin and a desperate need for a dodgy government to grasp at cheap and easy PR. Even the most basic of analysis would show the majority of these schemes are worthless and an utter waste of limited tax payers money.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I don't think we are. We are in a situation of misdirection, spin and a desperate need for a dodgy government to grasp at cheap and easy PR. Even the most basic of analysis would show the majority of these schemes are worthless and an utter waste of limited tax payers money.

ROTFLOL - I was trying to be respectful and tactful - but yeah - I understand where you are coming from. Of all schemes - not just these 50 but previously announced ones too, about two are worthy - both would be where lines are already in place and just need upgrading from freight only.

I am a lifelong conservative voter, but if I were in the UK right now, my vote would be up for grabs. What would be fair is if the government got Brexit done as that is what they are all about and were elected for and then hold a general election - and because of Covid - which causes respiratory disease, I suggest Transport must be higher on the agenda than it has ever been.

These reopenings sound good as a lifelong rail enthusiast but - a big but- yes the vast majority even with the planning is a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[DarloRich]

What would be fair is if the government got Brexit done as that is what they are all about and were elected for

That is going to constrain public money even more. Coupled with the pandemic slowdown the results could be terrible. I cant see how there is going to be money for this. Even the good ideas will really struggle and I fear desperation will lead to vanity projects in areas Johnson needs to look like he cares about.

 

[YorksLad12]

I don't think we are. We are in a situation of misdirection, spin and a desperate need for a dodgy government to grasp at cheap and easy PR. Even the most basic of analysis would show the majority of these schemes are worthless and an utter waste of limited tax payers money.

Replace "PR" with "headlines" and I'm with you

On a slightly separate note: we have a new thread every time the list is updated, with the same arguments for and against (mostly, against) each scheme. Is there any mileage in a pinned thread, or even a separate sub-forum, so that we don't keep having the same arguments?

 

[A0]

Whoops. Sorry, sir *scuttles back off into hole where I rightfully belong*

A bit of an over-reaction that to a perfectly reasonable response.

There are plenty of lines which do serve seaside resorts and the traffic jams ensue on the roads the minute the sun comes out. Some of those lines are fairly key as well - looking at the likes of Bournemouth or Hastings. So @Bald Rick's observation is quite correct - and the chances that reinstating Hunstanton would alleviate the traffic jams is remarkably low.

 

[Sprinter150]

I'm surprised Carshalton Beeches step-free access is on the list. Even stretching the meaning of "reversing Beeching", it is neither a line restoration, nor a modification to infrastructure that would allow an enhanced service on the West Croydon - Sutton route. Even if it does have a good case (and it has more chance than most of the other schemes happening), wouldn't it fit better under the access for all programme?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If the experience of the Cotswold Line Promotion Group is correct (just four days' notice given to submit their proposal?) some of the other proposals may possibly amount to little more than a brief scribble on the back of the proverbial fag packet.

 

[furnessvale]

If the experience of the Cotswold Line Promotion Group is correct (just four days' notice given to submit their proposal?) some of the other proposals may possibly amount to little more than a brief scribble on the back of the proverbial fag packet.

Notice was extremely tight but that hasn't stopped at least some bids being professionally presented thanks to previous work.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

On a slightly separate note: we have a new thread every time the list is updated, with the same arguments for and against (mostly, against) each scheme. Is there any mileage in a pinned thread, or even a separate sub-forum, so that we don't keep having the same arguments?

Suggest it to the mods

 

[Bald Rick]

If the experience of the Cotswold Line Promotion Group is correct (just four days' notice given to submit their proposal?) some of the other proposals may possibly amount to little more than a brief scribble on the back of the proverbial fag packet.

No it’s not correct.

It was announced on 28 January. Promoters have had since then to prepare and submit their proposal. The successful bidders in the first round were announced on 23 May, and it was explicitly stated then that the second round submission date was 19 June. So, even if they missed the announcement in January, and the news headlines that day and the next, and the first round submission date, and the various updates DfT have issued subsequently, they still had 4 weeks.

 

[Glenn1969]

The release I saw said announcements will follow in late Summer. I happen to think that due to a combination of mishandling of the pandemic and the fact that most people were voting for or against Brexit in December Mr Johnson and the Tories have no chance of winning in 2024 particularly with Mr Farage and the Brexit Party no longer a factor to muddy the waters post Brexit. So we will see.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No it’s not correct.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

I was surprised at first to see Leicester to Burton on Trent isn't on the list but further investigation shows it's already secured funding.

Bid to reopen passenger line from Burton secures landmark backing

A support group has been pushing for the move for more than a year

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

The move to reopen passenger services on a historic railway line between Burton and Leicester has received major backing.

The Department for Transport has announced the first railway projects that will receive a share of a £500,000 pot to reinstate axed train services.

Among those included is the Ivanhoe line, which despite continuing to run freight trains, has not been used by passengers since the infamous Beeching cuts in 1964.

The Government announcement will now see money invested to develop plans and proposals to reinstate the Ivanhoe Line, which passes through South Derbyshire from Burton to Leicester.

Does anyone know if the £500,000 listed in the link is from a different pot or was yesterday's announcement just a repeat of the previous one to make it look like there's new investment on the way?

 

[bluenoxid]

I was surprised at first to see Leicester to Burton on Trent isn't on the list but further investigation shows it's already secured funding.

Bid to reopen passenger line from Burton secures landmark backing

A support group has been pushing for the move for more than a year

www.derbytelegraph.co.uk

Does anyone know if the £500,000 listed in the link is from a different pot or was yesterday's announcement just a repeat of the previous one to make it look like there's new investment on the way?

Its a different round (that was round 1, this 50 is round 2) but same funding area, Ideas Fund of the Restoring Your Railway fund

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Whoops. Sorry, sir *scuttles back off into hole where I rightfully belong*

What’s worth saying, and perhaps Bald Rick could have done it better, is that to do many many tourist flows for which the line will arguably earn most of its trade will require significant and unhelpfully long cross-country or cross-London journeys. Think Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds etc to Ely, then doubling back and going to Kings Lynn, probably to connect again with a diesel shuttle. Road will win such a battle.

Hunstanton sadly, like Wells, just won’t stack up.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Its a different round (that was round 1, this 50 is round 2) but same funding area, Ideas Fund of the Restoring Your Railway fund

Thanks for that. Is there a link anywhere to what other projects secured funding in round 1?

 

[Bald Rick]

What’s worth saying, and perhaps Bald Rick could have done it better, is that to do many many tourist flows for which the line will arguably earn most of its trade will require significant and unhelpfully long cross-country or cross-London journeys. Think Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds etc to Ely, then doubling back and going to Kings Lynn, probably to connect again with a diesel shuttle. Road will win such a battle.

Hunstanton sadly, like Wells, just won’t stack up.

I could have said it better, you’re right.

You only have to look at the people who spend leisure time in Hunstanton and elsewhere on the north Norfolk coast, and the cars they drive, to see that they are pretty unlikely to swap to a rail service from Kings Lynn.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for that. Is there a link anywhere to what other projects secured funding in round 1?

There’s a thread here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/govenment-briefing-23rd-may-reversing-beeching-cuts.204681/

But as someone posted earlier new threads seem to get started every update, and then there’s the parallel threads in “speculation”.

4 pages into this discussion and the DfT webpage hasn’t been linked:

Demand from England and Wales to restore Beeching lines as deadline for proposals closes

Fund will help to develop proposals to build or reopen railway lines and stations.

www.gov.uk

(found it in the May thread on phase 1)

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The release I saw said announcements will follow in late Summer. I happen to think that due to a combination of mishandling of the pandemic and the fact that most people were voting for or against Brexit in December Mr Johnson and the Tories have no chance of winning in 2024 particularly with Mr Farage and the Brexit Party no longer a factor to muddy the waters post Brexit. So we will see.

And a credible person at the helm of the opposition

 

[si404]

a direct train from the tourist area of Stratford upon Avon (Shakespeare attracts quite a few tourists...) to London

Already exists. two-hourly into Marylebone, proposed to be hourly presumably once rolling-stock issues, and perhaps capacity Banbury-Leamington, are sorted (Marylebone isn't an issue here as the trains already run London-Banbury on those alternate hours).

The main case for the line to Honeybourne is about housing at Long Marston. And that's what most of these proposals need - housing or some similar 'levelling up' (to use the Government's phrase) of the area. Even infill stations probably need some redevelopment benefits to justify them.

This seems a very sensible proposal as both towns deserve a far better service than they currently get but why does it need any funding at all if the trains are already running but not stopping?

Bottesford is 2-hourly and Radcliffe even less (5tpd in 2010 - has that been improved). Upping them to hourly (and Radcliffe doesn't even have to be that) on the stopper should only cost fuel and a bit of work for the timetablers.

 

[Bald Rick]

Bottesford is 2-hourly and Radcliffe even less (5tpd in 2010 - has that been improved). Upping them to hourly (and Radcliffe doesn't even have to be that) on the stopper should only cost fuel and a bit of work for the timetablers.

It’s 8 a day now. Roughly hourly in the morning, then a few through the rest of the day. I really don’t understand why more services don’t stop; I guess with a bus every 10 minutes all day right into the city centre and good bus priority measures, the bus will win. The traffic is awful though.

 

[YorksLad12]

Suggest it to the mods

Ta. Still a bit new here.

Er...mods...