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Next 50 Bids for reopenings

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DynamicSpirit

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Witham looks especially difficult to solve I do wonder if a new alignment to join up with GEML north of Hatfield Peverel would be the only workable solution but that would still be sub optimal and unless significant grade separation were to be provided to easily access the main line you end up with a shuttle to station with currently no more than an hourly service.

That would be my thought as the least bad solution. Also depends on being able to find additional paths on the GEML, and I'm guessing that won't be easy. Maybe if you could find 1 extra path per hour, you could combine with the Braintree service, and run half-hourly from Liverpool Street, with the trains splitting at Chelmsford into Maldon and Braintree portions?
 
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joebassman

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Maldon would be better directed at a high quality bus link instead?

I believe there's always been a bit of an issue with that in that the road access is not that great with most of the roads being quite small and winding and quite a bit of congestion around Maldon. Even after closure there was apparently never that good a bus service. My dad used to work in Maldon and the service was terrible then with 1 bus a day for work which would get cancelled meaning people couldn't get to work.
Maldon station is still there although surrounded by an industrial estate. A massive issue is that all the trackbed into Maldon has the ring road on top of it so there's really no way of getting in. The triangle that linked the Witham and Woodham ferrers lines is now a road. Plus the rest of the trackbed is now a nature trail so I guess there would be real issues with gaining permission to reuse that
 
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Alfie1014

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Agreed the road network is far from perfect, (some of the best bits are on the former trackbed as you mention). Bus frequencies are not bad and at least in Chelmsford there’s proper easy interchange to the rail station.

That would be my thought as the least bad solution. Also depends on being able to find additional paths on the GEML, and I'm guessing that won't be easy. Maybe if you could find 1 extra path per hour, you could combine with the Braintree service, and run half-hourly from Liverpool Street, with the trains splitting at Chelmsford into Maldon and Braintree portions?

Splitting/joining at Chelmsford wouldn’t be on, far too intensively used, could possibly happen at Beaulieu in the centre turn back but that would have to assume that the new line was electrified and could accommodate trains of at least 5 x 720 (125m) length, which for reopened railway is an expensive way to start up the service.
 

joebassman

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Agreed the road network is far from perfect, (some of the best bits are on the former trackbed as you mention). Bus frequencies are not bad and at least in Chelmsford there’s proper easy interchange to the rail station

Its true that the bus frequency isn't too bad. 1bph I think. But looking at the timetable I guess it's the fact that it takes nearly 40mins to travel 10 miles to Chelmsford is what puts a lot of people off using it plus the added traffic in rush hour. I guess maybe the other option would be to build a dedicated bus way to outside Chelmsford
 

DynamicSpirit

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Here's the full list of the 50 bids


We need a competition... who can come closest to predicting which of those will go through the next round! (Probably not too hard to guess approximately. Glancing through those some good ideas stand out, along with some that look hopelessly impractical).
 

swt_passenger

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We need a competition... who can come closest to predicting which of those will go through the next round! (Probably not too hard to guess approximately. Glancing through those some good ideas stand out, along with some that look hopelessly impractical).
Or a competition to see how many times the same list can be posted as though it’s new?
 

Snow1964

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It appears Corsham station is on the list (sponsored by local MP)


The article seems to suggest it could be part of a bigger scheme with other new stations between Bristol and Oxford.

Presumably if the aborted cancelled electrification was reinstated it would allow similar timings to limited stop services currently running Swindon-Bath-Bristol
 

johnnychips

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Or a competition to see how many times the same list can be posted as though it’s new?
To be fair to the poster in #215, if they hadn’t read all - erm - 214 posts before they might not have realised. There have been many difficulties trying to work out which proposal relates to which rounds of bidding. But I know what you mean.
 

Bald Rick

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If I win do I get a prize?

There is a prize!

The winner gets to go to Camberwell on a winter’s evening, to explain to all the people who are going to have their homes or businesses compulsorily purchased in order to build the new station, how that new station is going to be the best thing that happened to them.

Any takers?
 

joebassman

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There is a prize!

The winner gets to go to Camberwell on a winter’s evening, to explain to all the people who are going to have their homes or businesses compulsorily purchased in order to build the new station, how that new station is going to be the best thing that happened to them.

Any takers?

That's alright. I'll get Chris Packham to do it and explain how the money he managed to get saved on HS2 was instead spent on a more important local project he said was needed and that it's OK cause no acient Oak trees or wildlife were destroyed
 

tbtc

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Happy "Reverse Beeching" day everyone - I know it feels it comes earlier each month these days, and it's getting commercialised but it's nice to see some traditions continue on the railway, and a long list of weak re-opening schemes in relatively empty parts of the country...

That's alright. I'll get Chris Packham to do it and explain how the money he managed to get saved on HS2 was instead spent on a more important local project he said was needed and that it's OK cause no acient Oak trees or wildlife were destroyed

I saw a tweet yesterday from a friend asking me to sign a petition to persevere the Monsall Trail and stop them destroying it by building a railway line on it, which they'll apparently have to do "because of HS2" - poor old HS2 is even to blame when people want to object to reopening "historic" lines - got to love the Great British Public...
 

Irascible

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On balance, re-routing road traffic would be my favoured solution. On the upside, it doesn't look like there are any properties that directly front onto the road in question, so in principle it ought to be possible to close that road. On the downside, it means you're going to have to build another road somewhere to replace it - and that is going to add hugely to the expense. Just doing some idle crayonista-ing, this was my first thought - a new Southern/Western by-pass that would allow for the crucial section of the A4390 to be closed. Clearly you couldn't justify all this expense purely in order to build a railway, but possibly you could justify it on the basis that you get the railway AND divert potentially a lot of traffic out of the city and onto the by-pass? Would need to do something about the racecourse though. And you have issues about whether this would actually induce more road traffic.

As there's been discussions of tunnelling, street running, viaducts etc to form any solution, every scheme involves rebuilding the road to some degree anyway! it does seem one place where you could reroute a road back off an old rail formation ( even if the road access philosophy to the area changes ). I'm not sure the road itself is a gigantic sticking point - looking at the area there are some admittedly more awkward solutions in the south - but the north roundabout certainly seems a problem. I guess you could run the railway in a cutting & raise the roundabout a little if you had to ( although without the road south you might not even need a roundabout there ). This whole thing is expensive as hell anyway...
 

MarkyT

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As there's been discussions of tunnelling, street running, viaducts etc to form any solution, every scheme involves rebuilding the road to some degree anyway! it does seem one place where you could reroute a road back off an old rail formation ( even if the road access philosophy to the area changes ). I'm not sure the road itself is a gigantic sticking point - looking at the area there are some admittedly more awkward solutions in the south - but the north roundabout certainly seems a problem. I guess you could run the railway in a cutting & raise the roundabout a little if you had to ( although without the road south you might not even need a roundabout there ). This whole thing is expensive as hell anyway...
I noticed the old railway alignment drops quite steeply already heading south from the station so the gradient for getting the railway under the road by any means is going to present a problem without starting the ramp further back, which in turn might mean reconstructing the station as Bald Rick noted, adding to the expense. Perhaps an alternative approach is to accept that a through running connection is not going to be viable in the near future and that an additional Stratford South terminus station might be more practical served by the new spur from Honeybourne instead. It could be built as close to the roundabout as possible by realigning the road a little and creating a new bridge access to Wetherby Way as I suggested previously. The two stations could be around a half-mile walk apart for anyone who really wanted to make a connection, and the buffer stop end entrance of the new terminus would be a fairly convenient walk from the town centre, with a second public entrance at the south end for car parking at the Wetherby Way roundabout. It could then be up to future generations to engineer a surface rail link between the two stations by some means if desired, perhaps using tram-train tech for some local services.
 

cle

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Beyond the 're-openings' of adding calls to existing services and so forth, there are some which are obvious, and some which make sense but are harder. I can't see tons of net new re-openings though.

I'd love it if Camberwell could work (as I used to live there) - but appreciate how messy it would be. Especially as it would need to be four platforms, accessible and so on - and the footprint would be massive. Cheaper than the Bakerloo spur though, and would be very well used in all three directions.

Stockport to Alty could be interesting, as Manchester's heavy rail could be much better used. That said, would it just be slowing down existing services? How about Piccadilly, and Stockport Viaduct? Or new platforms on Stockport's west side? And if new things, how about Navigation Road? 'Redoubling' could imply a solution there.

Stockport to East Didsbury and to Ashton - curious about both of those. Again, not sure how Stockport (and Viaduct) can handle it! The former to me might be the Metrolink, no?
 

furnessvale

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I saw a tweet yesterday from a friend asking me to sign a petition to persevere the Monsall Trail and stop them destroying it by building a railway line on it, which they'll apparently have to do "because of HS2" - poor old HS2 is even to blame when people want to object to reopening "historic" lines - got to love the Great British Public...
The promoters of this scheme have agreed to a replacement Monsal trail which will serve the community better than the present one. The objectors wish to maintain the ability to cycle and walk through the old railway tunnels which seems an odd thing to do when visiting a scenic area, and certainly no reason, on its own, to stop a potential reopening.
 

Irascible

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I noticed the old railway alignment drops quite steeply already heading south from the station so the gradient for getting the railway under the road by any means is going to present a problem without starting the ramp further back, which in turn might mean reconstructing the station as Bald Rick noted, adding to the expense. Perhaps an alternative approach is to accept that a through running connection is not going to be viable in the near future and that an additional Stratford South terminus station might be more practical served by the new spur from Honeybourne instead. It could be built as close to the roundabout as possible by realigning the road a little and creating a new bridge access to Wetherby Way as I suggested previously. The two stations could be around a half-mile walk apart for anyone who really wanted to make a connection, and the buffer stop end entrance of the new terminus would be a fairly convenient walk from the town centre, with a second public entrance at the south end for car parking at the Wetherby Way roundabout. It could then be up to future generations to engineer a surface rail link between the two stations by some means if desired, perhaps using tram-train tech for some local services.

Evesham Road used to go under the formation, so I guess it could once again go under if some raised earthworks are permitted. There's still a group of houses with no easy replacement access, unfortunately. I guess abandoning any idea of joining the gap there means passengers from the south are dumped on the outskirts, which makes me a little suspicious of how much use it'd really get. This seems like one of those puzzles with a solution you just can't grasp...
 

4-SUB 4732

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Any idea what the Mid-Cornwall Metro entails?

Am I to make a reasonable assumption of a 4tph frequency between Truro and Bodmin? Calling at all stations? Probably with overlaying connections to Falmouth, Newquay and the like?
 

MarkyT

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Am I to make a reasonable assumption of a 4tph frequency between Truro and Bodmin? Calling at all stations? Probably with overlaying connections to Falmouth, Newquay and the like?
Two trains an hour has long been an aspiration along the main line and you might plausibly extend the Falmouth 30m interval shuttle from Truro to St Austell and beyond, interleaved with Penzance trains, but I'm not convinced there's signalling capacity for 4 trains an hour along that section, which at least is double track again after the shortsighted singling of a few decades ago. The reliability of the Falmouth service would be bound to suffer from any extension.
 

4-SUB 4732

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Two trains an hour has long been an aspiration along the main line and you might plausibly extend the Falmouth 30m interval shuttle from Truro to St Austell and beyond, interleaved with Penzance trains, but I'm not convinced there's signalling capacity for 4 trains an hour along that section, which at least is double track again after the shortsighted singling of a few decades ago. The reliability of the Falmouth service would be bound to suffer from any extension.

Sorry, I meant 4tp2h as it’s not going to be a perfect pattern with only a two-hourly London.
 

si404

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Sorry, I meant 4tp2h as it’s not going to be a perfect pattern with only a two-hourly London.
Presumably the way to get 2tph is to ditch the CrossCountry south of Plymouth (having the Cardiffs, especially if they are increased to match the decrease in XC, will provide the Bristol link), and extend the two-hourly London-Plymouth trains to Penzance.

Any possibility of Mid Cornwall Metro including through running from Falmouth to Looe or an improved Newquay service?
Improved Newquay service is a separate bid.

The problem with Falmouth through-running is that the connection to/from trains from outside Cornwall that doesn't have through running won't be that good, or the mainline service will have two trains running close together then a big gap, rendering the extra frequency on the mainline pointless..
 

jimm

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RE Honeybourne-Stratford. Where do I start, given the number of posts suggesting limited understanding of the overall situation, issues locally such as the roads in Stratford upon Avon, and work done previously on the proposal - or airily dismissing it out of hand? I especially loved the one questioning Arup's engineering expertise. Maybe have a look at their website to see what they do for a living...

So let's start with the government process and the suggestions that the CLPG chairman doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to applying to the DfT. The Honeybourne-Stratford application (for funding for further development work on the economic benefits) was lodged in response to the initial call for projects, which gave next to no time to get something in. It did not make it into the first list, but has appeared on the most recent list issued by the DfT without any further submission being made.

It is primarily a project about improving connectivity between Oxfordshire, the North Cotswolds, Worcestershire, Warwickshire and the West Midlands - and addressing the transport needs of the large new settlement set to appear at Long Marston airfield over the next decade or so - on top of the houses already built on part of the old Royal Engineers depot site at Meon Vale, just south of the old Long Marston station. And it would require further redoubling on the Cotswold Line - but that issue is being addressed by a separate project to improve that route anyway.
See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ments-debated-in-the-house-of-commons.199093/

The London-Stratford traffic would be a nice add-on and reflects where a lot of tourists visiting England go - London, Oxford and Stratford. The former NSE/Thames/FGW Paddington-Oxford-Stratford service was switched to Chiltern, cutting out Oxford, because DfT wanted a neat franchise map and didn't like the FGW area sticking out into Warwickshire, not because of what made marketing sense when it came to tourism. And the way Chiltern has treated Stratford ever since the switch was made - including dropping most of the through trains and then trying to make out it was doing the town a favour when it brought some of them back - has won it no friends at all locally.

The issues over the Long Marston station area are well known and easily dealt with by realigning the track to run one side or the other.

In Stratford there is no question whatever of closing the A4390 between Seven Meadows and Evesham Road. It has a key role as a relief road of sorts keeping traffic from the south and south west out of the town centre, even if it is less than ideal, but then that just about sums up the entire road network in Stratford, so closing bits of it are simply not an option.

The solution here is straightforward, which is the use of a single track in a trench alongside the road, to help with noise reduction, and a tunnel under the Evesham Road roundabout* with the line then rising to the station. The road was built with wide verges, so there is space to work with.

*There used to be a level crossing at this location, not a bridge as suggested somewhere above, which was pretty notorious for causing queues of traffic when trains were passing, so a tunnel is the only option here - bridges, embankments or anything like that are simply a non-starter amid all the houses, which is why the trench/tunnel idea was proposed in the first place.

There are some photos of the old level crossing, including the large signal box built by the Western Region in 1960, on this page. The website also has descriptions and old pictures of the line towards Honeyboune (see the section about the North Warwickshire Line) as far west as Pebworth, the last halt before Honeybourne.


And there is lots of background reading about the reopening proposals here http://www.shakespeareline.com/stratford-to-honeybourne.html

and here http://suawoox.com
 

Energy

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And the way Chiltern has treated Stratford ever since the switch was made - including dropping most of the through trains and then trying to make out it was doing the town a favour when it brought some of them back - has won it no friends at all locally.
The 1/2 tph run by Chiltern is infrequent considering that Stratford is a popular tourists destination, I would expect it to be at least hourly.
 
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