Next Labour Leader - Confirmed as Keir Starmer

[Ferret]

You can do the same with Keir Starmer, but only if you use his knighthood title

"Oh Sir Ke-ir Starm-er" doesn't have quite the same ring to it

I doubt a personality cult that needs a daft chant would actually form around Keir Starmer. He strikes me as a serious politician, which is why he won’t win!

Still, hat tip for working out how you can continue to ruin one of my favourite songs for me!

 

[jfollows]

It's an intriguing one - why do some party leaders, even P.M.s, continue to sit as MPs for ages afterwards?

I think that sticking around to represent your constituents, probably as a backbench MP (at least until the next General Election), is the right thing to do after a bad election result. Gordon Brown did this too, fair play to him. Tony Blair and David Cameron both buggered off quickly rather than do this, which made me think (even) less of both of them. Jeremy Corbyn should also stick around until the next election.
Sticking around for longer is presumably a personal choice, and no criticism to anyone who does this. Theresa May seems to doing this.

 

[Gooner18]

Labour are finished until they realise momentum and being far to left is what had cost them. They have their heads buried in the sand atm

 

[southern442]

Labour are finished until they realise momentum and being far to left is what had cost them. They have their heads buried in the sand atm

Whilst I think you are missing the main points about why they lost (pointless repeating them again), you do raise a good point about momentum. They need to be disposed of and quickly.

 

[DarloRich]

Jeremy Corbyn should also stick around until the next election.

No, he should quit. Now. Then never come back.

 

[southern442]

No, he should quit. Now. Then never come back.

As an MP? Why? There is no reason why you should quit as an MP if you still want to serve your constituents and they want you to serve them.

 

[DarloRich]

As an MP? Why? There is no reason why you should quit as an MP if you still want to serve your constituents and they want you to serve them.

because he is an utter joke, a complete failure and not fit to be a member of the labour party. Will that do? Oh, and I don't like him.

 

[southern442]

because he is an utter joke, a complete failure and not fit to be a member of the labour party. Will that do? Oh, and I don't like him.

I feel like one of those reasons is influencing these declarations considerably more than the others...

 

[AlterEgo]

David Lammy has decided to throw a few firecrackers into this dumpster fire of a leadership race, by entering it.

 

[DarloRich]

I feel like one of those reasons is influencing these declarations considerably more than the others...

Maybe - but i would also like to see his malingering, malignant and malign influence removed from Labour so that they can, you know, get on with winning elections. That used to be important in politics but now it seems winning the argument is all that matters. I am sure that will keep people warm once the reality of Tory policy bites.

Oh and: I.Dont.Like.The.Man.

 

[southern442]

Maybe - but i would also like to see his malingering, malignant and malign influence removed from Labour so that they can, you know, get on with winning elections. That used to be important in politics but now it seems winning the argument is all that matters. I am sure that will keep people warm once the reality of Tory policy bites.

Oh and: I.Dont.Like.The.Man.

I could say the same about Blair, he isn't even an MP and he's still sticking his criminal nose into business. I suppose what is best is just ignoring them.

 

[DarloRich]

I could say the same about Blair, he isn't even an MP and he's still sticking his criminal nose into business. I suppose what is best is just ignoring them.

It might help if people in the clown army listened to a bloke who, you know, won 3 elections for Labour. Alternatively, I suspect they will continue to listen to the bloke who lost three elections, the last one in a completely humiliating and depressing manner. At least he won the argument though.

The man should have quit the day after the election.

PS this Blair is a war criminal stuff is tedious.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Long-Bailey is as condescending as Diane Abbott. They both come over as patronising schoolteachers.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Long-Bailey is as condescending as Diane Abbott. They both come over as patronising schoolteachers.

I hope maths isn't their specialist subject...!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It might help if people in the clown army listened to a bloke who, you know, won 3 elections for Labour. Alternatively, I suspect they will continue to listen to the bloke who lost three elections, the last one in a completely humiliating and depressing manner. At least he won the argument though.

The man should have quit the day after the election.

PS this Blair is a war criminal stuff is tedious.

Agree - the war criminal/Red Tory stuff is ridiculous. Corbyn led (and I use the term loosely) the Labour Party into a defeat twice, including the most humiliating result since 1935 and people still reckon it was "just Brexit". FFS, the man didn't win in 2017 either against an incompetent Tory campaign and trying to overturn a small Tory majority. The way the apparatchiks responded then, you'd have thought they'd won and that only emboldened for the 2019 calamity.

If not Blair, the people undertaking the postmortem need to speak to others who were architects of the three wins to understand what they need to do. What it doesn't need is to continue heading left

 

[bramling]

Agree - the war criminal/Red Tory stuff is ridiculous. Corbyn led (and I use the term loosely) the Labour Party into a defeat twice, including the most humiliating result since 1935 and people still reckon it was "just Brexit". FFS, the man didn't win in 2017 either against an incompetent Tory campaign and trying to overturn a small Tory majority. The way the apparatchiks responded then, you'd have thought they'd won and that only emboldened for the 2019 calamity.

Even if it was "just Brexit", even that problem can trace its roots back to Corbyn and his fan club -- on the basis that Labour's Brexit position simply wasn't credible to vast numbers of their normal voters outside London, because of the mismatch between the London-based Corbyn young naive fan club and the rest of their voters elsewhere in England - and not forgetting Wales too.

As for Blair, I'm not sure he is necessarily the voice of reason. Blair offered the country an appealing solution to 1990s issues, and although his popularity was maintained in 2001 (against a Conservative party which was still a mess), it dropped away quite heavily after that. It's a matter for conjecture what might have happened in 2010 had Blair continued and not been replaced by Brown. Blair's subsequent Brexit position quite probably doesn't connect well with the Labour heartlands either. In my view Blair is a busted flush who ultimately got found out, Blair's fate is kind of summed up well by the similar fate of the once-iconic Trimdon Labour Club which has similarly faded into history.

If not Blair, the people undertaking the postmortem need to speak to others who were architects of the three wins to understand what they need to do. What it doesn't need is to continue heading left

Ah but the youngsters who worship Corbyn know best. The election result was "a mistake", and needs to be "remedied". For as long as these people have any kind of influence on things there will be no progress. The only reason Corbyn didn't do quite so badly last time was because of May's utterly disastrous campaign possibly combined with the notion that a Conservative victory was a done-deal so there wasn't so much of a dilemma for people - it was possible to grudgingly vote Labour without perceiving there to be a risk of them actually winning power. This time there was clearly a sense that Corbyn could find a route to power, and clearly people were repelled by that.

 

[Ferret]

because he is an utter joke, a complete failure and not fit to be a member of the labour party. Will that do? Oh, and I don't like him.

If only Blair had booted him out!

 

[Comstock]

If only Blair had booted him out!

I don't think the leader can unilatterally boot someone out of the party? They've got a fair bit of power but aren't absolute dictators.

 

[DarloRich]

If only Blair had booted him out!

yet the evil Blair was prepared to allow people like Corbyn in the party and at least pretend to consider their views. The Corbyn cult brook no opposition, alternative views or perceived disloyalty to their messiah.

I don't think the leader can unilatterally boot someone out of the party? They've got a fair bit of power but aren't absolute dictators.

Perhaps not on paper but they can absolutely get someone booted out.

 

[eastdyke]

My daughter is married to a Labour Party activist in London. And, oh boy, they really do think that their views trump those of others.
Their world ends at the M25, just as mine does politically going the other way

Whether or not Ms Thornberry said exactly what Caroline Flint alleges she might just as well have done.

 

[Comstock]

yet the evil Blair was prepared to allow people like Corbyn in the party and at least pretend to consider their views. The Corbyn cult brook no opposition, alternative views or perceived disloyalty to their messiah.



Perhaps not on paper but they can absolutely get someone booted out.

Well Blair tried to boot Ken Livingstone out but he won the mayoral as an independent and Blair ultimately had to readmit him to the party.

In 1997 Corbyn got nearly 70 per cent of the vote in Islington North. Potentially he could have run as an indy and won, especially after the Iraq war. Galloway did this of course, winning a formerly safe Labour seat in London's East end.

 

[Comstock]

My daughter is married to a Labour Party activist in London. And, oh boy, they really do think that their views trump those of others.
Their world ends at the M25, just as mine does politically going the other way
.

It does make you wonder if one day we might see independence, or, more likely Devo Max for London..

 

[RealTrains07]

Lisa Nandy should be leader. Someone who can actually speak for the north.

people say having a woman would be a bad choice consider the 2 tory leaders who were women werent even voted out

 

[Bevan Price]

Labour will remain in a mess for years. The party is in currently control of Momentum, who are effectively a re-born Militant. They will ensure that the next leaders will be "one of theirs" - and just as unelectable as Mr Corbyn. Many of them probably want a return of the Clause 4 era - nationalise everything - regardless of cost, and I suspect more than a few would like to return to the time of "rent a thug" secondary picketing, strikes without proper ballots, etc. Anyone in the party who does not support them probably stands very little chance of being selected as a Labour candidate at future elections.
Sadly, I fear that Labour may have passed the point of no return, and is doomed to an ever decreasing permanent opposition party.

And that creates new problems - how to avoid permanent Tory rule - which would be bad for democracy. How long would it take for a new, credible moderate opposition party to emerge and successfully defeat the Tories?

 

[southern442]

It might help if people in the clown army listened to a bloke who, you know, won 3 elections for Labour. Alternatively, I suspect they will continue to listen to the bloke who lost three elections, the last one in a completely humiliating and depressing manner. At least he won the argument though.

The man should have quit the day after the election.

PS this Blair is a war criminal stuff is tedious.

I don't want to go and word-for-word copy what other people have said in far better terms as a response to this, but if people think Labour should still be listening to Blair, I think the 'clowns' in this situation may be found closer to home than they would like.

Keep in mind though that at no point did I imply we should still take direction from Corbyn. Nor do I believe that it would be allowed, the press would have a field day. He should keep quiet, much like Miliband did, and just serve his constituents (in my opinion your reasons for wanting him to quit as an MP, whilst clearly heavily cemented, are irrational).

I won't go into Blair being a war criminal, yes there is a debate to be had, but I resent him immensely for what he did and have extremely good reason for doing so.

People suggesting we stick to Corbynism, and those who say 'we won the argument', worry me. Equally, I would hate a return to New Labour because it just won't win, and more importantly, I fear it would not help to undo the mess that the Tories are leaving the country in. I'd love to say that I cannot believe that people are legitimately trying to argue either side of this, but of course I can.

 

[southern442]

It does make you wonder if one day we might see independence, or, more likely Devo Max for London..

In most cases I always adopt a policy of criticising the argument and never the people who support the argument (i.e. criticise tories, not tory voters).

That being said, people advocating for an independent London either have not thought seriously about it for more than 5 minutes or are stupid.

 

[Peter Kelford]

In most cases I always adopt a policy of criticising the argument and never the people who support the argument (i.e. criticise tories, not tory voters).

That being said, people advocating for an independent London either have not thought seriously about it for more than 5 minutes or are stupid.

Hong Kong has a similar predicament, being essentially contained on all sides by the sea or borders (with immigration checks and all).

 

[DarloRich]

I don't want to go and word-for-word copy what other people have said in far better terms as a response to this, but if people think Labour should still be listening to Blair, I think the 'clowns' in this situation may be found closer to home than they would like.

Keep in mind though that at no point did I imply we should still take direction from Corbyn. Nor do I believe that it would be allowed, the press would have a field day. He should keep quiet, much like Miliband did, and just serve his constituents (in my opinion your reasons for wanting him to quit as an MP, whilst clearly heavily cemented, are irrational).

I won't go into Blair being a war criminal, yes there is a debate to be had, but I resent him immensely for what he did and have extremely good reason for doing so.

People suggesting we stick to Corbynism, and those who say 'we won the argument', worry me. Equally, I would hate a return to New Labour because it just won't win, and more importantly, I fear it would not help to undo the mess that the Tories are leaving the country in. I'd love to say that I cannot believe that people are legitimately trying to argue either side of this, but of course I can.

It is Christmas so I cant be bothered to argue. Corbyn is a wrong un and Blair isnt a wsr criminal.

Happy xmas!

 

[Comstock]

In most cases I always adopt a policy of criticising the argument and never the people who support the argument (i.e. criticise tories, not tory voters).

That being said, people advocating for an independent London either have not thought seriously about it for more than 5 minutes or are stupid.

I'm not advocating for or against it.

I just wonder if it will ever be seriously considered. It's probably a step too far but I do think it's possible we'll see some sort of Devo Max campaign

 

[bramling]

It is Christmas so I cant be bothered to argue. Corbyn is a wrong un and Blair isnt a wsr criminal.

War criminal or not a war criminal, Blair made what has transpired to be a pretty major error over the Iraq war, one which ultimately cost many lives. That’s not something to be proud of.

I am prepared to give Blair the benefit of the doubt and work on the basis that he did it for the right reasons (even though there’s some evidence to suggest otherwise - for example the “sexed up dossier”), however this doesn’t take away from the fact that ultimately he got a major decision wrong - taking the country to war on the premise of something which turned out to be false. In my view no trial for war crimes, but equally he should keep a dignified silence and stay out of the limelight.

It is perhaps unfortunate that this discredited individual happens to be the only person who has won elections for Labour in recent history...

It wouldn’t harm Labour to study the New Labour project as a whole though, and consider just why this appealed to the electorate, and how this offer differed from Corbyn’s package. It’s worth remembering that even though Blair was successful he was up against a Conservative party in increasingly dire trouble of their own. Would Blair have defeated Thatcher in the 80s?