Next routes to get 24-hour services

[Gathursty]

There are already routes (not many) which have services at all hours (Ignoring Sleeper services).

Which routes will join Thameslink et al in the future with 24-hour services?

 

[iphone76]

I can't imagine it will be too long before TfL Rail / Elizabeth Line goes over to 24 hour operation (even if just between Abbey Wood and Paddington and at weekends) once it is all opened up and settled down.

 

[VT 390]

Would something like MerseyRail be used if a 24 Hour service operated on some of the busiest routes at Weekends?

 

[adrock1976]

I am unsure if this is intended as a Speculative Ideas thread or not, but what I would like to see in the future is the Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Queen Street running a 24 hour continuous operation.

This could initially be introduced on early Saturday and Sunday mornings (similar as how there are some extra after midnight departures during the Edinburgh Festival or on the last day of the event), calling at at the very least Falkirk High/Grahamston and Croy/Cumbernauld. Those are substitute calling points if the train has to be diverted at Polmont due to engineering works along the main Edinburgh & Glasgow Railway.

 

[yorkie]

Does 24 hour mean at least one service in all 24 hours of the day on weekdays (ie. York to Manchester would not count, as some hours see no departures)?

I am unsure if this is intended as a Speculative Ideas thread or not,...

Well, it is now!

 

[Gathursty]

Yorkie bumped it into the right sub forum for me.

I'm more interested in what will happen from the TOCs/NR viewpoint rather than what we as forum members want to happen.

 

[JonathanH]

24 hour operation can only really happen on railways with four-tracking, some form of bi-directional signalling or alternative routes.

It is worth noting that Victoria to Gatwick only has an overnight service two days a week. In his report on the state of the line, Chris Gibb noted that it was much more cost effective to direct passengers to the National Express coach service than run trains. He also noted that it was better to run Thameslink services because there are three (four but one not signed) possible routes between Blackfriars and East Croydon.

 

[Gathursty]

Does 24 hour mean at least one service in all 24 hours of the day on weekdays (ie. York to Manchester would not count, as some hours see no departures)?


Well, it is now!

I will say at least 1tph unless there is some obvious reason or local issue.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Victoria to Brighton really ought to be 24 hours.

 

[AlanFry1]

I'd imagine London - Cambridge, London to Southend via Romford weekends, London to Dartford, London to Northampton, London to Chingford/Enfield weekends. London to Reading via Staines maybe, and possibly officially London to Reading via Slough.

 

[JonathanH]

Even if you go to Gatwick in the middle of the night (2am - 4am) the trains are not at all busy. There might be a case for early and late trains on some routes but people need to feel safe on them.

 

[Chester1]

If we are counting light rail then Metrolink is a good contender. In the early hours of Saturday and Sunday the down time has been reduced to about 2 and a half hours. On the airport line the last departure from Deansgate-Castlefield is 00:50, restarting at 03:20 every 20 minutes, with street running through the city centre and normal services starting much later. There is an argument for progressively extending hours and only stopping if additional services are unprofitable. A city centre street running ban would probably be a good idea to avoid hitting drunks. In terms of heavy rail there is always 1 TPE service operating to or from Manchester Airport somewhere but its not a true 24 hour service. The Airport cannot operate flights 24 hours a day due to planning restrictions.

 

[Meerkat]

How noisy are trams though, considering they go down some people roads?

 

[Chester1]

How noisy are trams though, considering they go down some people roads?

I don't think they are noisier than a lorry. The Airport line has more street running than any other line and it has between 2 and a half to 4 hours downtime each night. Removing all the down time on two nights a week won't make much difference.

For both heavy and light rail Victoria would like probably be a better 24 hour station than Piccadilly. The latter could shut between 23:30 and 04:45 (first VT train is 05:05). Victoria is the right size and better suited for crowd control. I don't think it will happen anytime soon but 3 good routes for a GM night train service would be Manchester Victoria-Stockport/Stalybridge/Wigan. There are diversionary routes for each and they are not served by Metrolink.

 

[PeterC]

I'd imagine London - Cambridge, London to Southend via Romford weekends, London to Dartford, London to Northampton, London to Chingford/Enfield weekends. London to Reading via Staines maybe, and possibly officially London to Reading via Slough.

London to Shenfield ran for about 22 hours per day when I was a youngster.

 

[PR1Berske]

I don't think they are noisier than a lorry. The Airport line has more street running than any other line and it has between 2 and a half to 4 hours downtime each night. Removing all the down time on two nights a week won't make much difference.

For both heavy and light rail Victoria would like probably be a better 24 hour station than Piccadilly. The latter could shut between 23:30 and 04:45 (first VT train is 05:05). Victoria is the right size and better suited for crowd control. I don't think it will happen anytime soon but 3 good routes for a GM night train service would be Manchester Victoria-Stockport/Stalybridge/Wigan. There are diversionary routes for each and they are not served by Metrolink.

It may well be worth looking at turning Victoria into a 24hr station to stop Piccadilly being such a magnet for after pub/club/events attendees.

 

[higthomas]

I'd pick the following routes. All of them are four track (sort of) and I'd have the trains only call at station with platforms on all lines.

Note: Italics means that there are multiple routes from the previous station to this one. Trains can take any one of these routes, but would thus call at only the named stations.

Waterloo-Woking-Basingstoke-Southampton
Paddington-Reading-Didcot
Liverpool Street-Shenfield
King's Cross-Peterbrough (I know, Welwyn but this can be a bus if needs be)
Euston-Milton Keynes-Rugby-Birmingham New Street-Wolverhampton
Euston-Milton Keynes-Rugby-Rugeley-Crewe-Manchester
Edinburgh-Glasgow Central
York-Leeds-Manchester Victoria-Liverpool Lime Street

 

[Glenn1969]

Leeds- Bradford- Halifax- Rochdale- Manchester should be a 24hr service. I hope it will be if/when we get our Airport service.

So should Leeds-York, Leeds-Sheffield , Sheffield-Manchester and Sheffield- Doncaster

 

[Kite159]

King's Cross-Peterbrough (I know, Welwyn but this can be a bus if needs be)

You have the ability to avoid Welwyn by going via the Hertford loop if need be

 

[higthomas]

You have the ability to avoid Welwyn by going via the Hertford loop if need be

Yeah, but that removes the ability to call at Welwyn, Potters Bar etc.

 

[Iskra]

London-Manchester via Birmingham
London-Newcastle via Leeds
London-Swansea via Bristol
Bristol-Newcastle via Leeds

Initially, just one departure in each direction at around midnight. This would link most of the UK’s major cities with a night service, when you add in the existing sleepers.

There could be some demand as it could save people staying in hotels. Enthusiasts would probably like it too with their ALR’s.

It would cost less to operate than the sleepers due to the lower staffing costs of using normal day trains.

 

[thewaistcoat]

Yeah, but that removes the ability to call at Welwyn, Potters Bar etc.

I'd be happy with that with shuttle bus from Ally Pally/Potters Bar/Hatfield/WGC/Stevenage when diversion in place.
Hourly service Fri/Sat night.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Most people seem to be suggesting medium-distance or long-distance routes, but is that where the demand would be? I would have expected that most demand for all-night services would be for local services within large towns. As evidence: Night buses within London seem to be very well used in my experience, but as someone else has remarked, all-night Thameslink trains (which largely serve people travelling between different towns) are not.

My guess would've been that the main demand for 24-hour services would come from people going home after nights out (or from working in late-night places), and people going to work in things like cleaning jobs that require something like 6am starts. Since those kinds of jobs tend to be low-paid - not the kind of jobs that you'd commute 50 miles for - and most people going on nights out tend to go within their own town - and want to get back to specific districts within a town, not just to the main town centre - that would tend to imply much more demand for 24 hour services on routes like Waterloo-Surbiton or Birmingham-Lichfield than routes like London-Birmingham.

 

[EssexGonzo]

London to Shenfield ran for about 22 hours per day when I was a youngster.

It's not far off that now. Last Shenfield arrival 0140 with the first departure to Liverpool St ay 0438. If announcements can be turned down, I don't see 24h running as being a nuisance.

I used to live less than 50m from the ECML in the late 80's with many HSTs under load departing from Peterborough. You get used to sleeping through it.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Euston-Northampton, which is nearly 24hr already

 

[hexagon789]

Edinburgh-Glasgow Central

I would ammend that to Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High as it's a busier route and serves a greater population density en route.

 

[Aictos]

Yeah, but that removes the ability to call at Welwyn, Potters Bar etc.

Doesn't matter as they can just put buses on during engineering works which is what they do anyway if services booked via Welwyn are diverted via Hertford.

 

[Kite159]

I would ammend that to Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High as it's a busier route and serves a greater population density en route.

And if the route via Falkirk High is closed the train can go via Falkirk Grahamston (with a bus to take passengers up the hill if required).

 

[hexagon789]

And if the route via Falkirk High is closed the train can go via Falkirk Grahamston (with a bus to take passengers up the hill if required).

That was another consideration, though I suppose with Shotts electrified you could divert through there running out of Central rather than Carstairs if need be. Though whereas I believe E&G drivers are passed 'via Grahamston', I'm not sure the same is true for drivers who sign Glasgow-Carstairs-Edinburgh.

 

[Kite159]

That was another consideration, though I suppose with Shotts electrified you could divert through there running out of Central rather than Carstairs if need be. Though whereas I believe E&G drivers are passed 'via Grahamston', I'm not sure the same is true for drivers who sign Glasgow-Carstairs-Edinburgh.

Or even if the high level station is closed, maybe an hourly overnight service via Bathgate