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No Conductors on short journeys

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WelshBluebird

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I am wondering how the OP expects the guard to do a full ticket check, issue tickets to people without them and get back to the rear of the train in 4 minutes?

Maybe the OP could assist the guard by getting on at the very rear of the train where the guard might have a slim chance of getting to them.

Surely the question should be how Northern (and ATW, and a few other ToC's) expect the guard to do all that? Since it is the ToC that usually enforce the ludicrous situation by lack of ticketing facilities.
 
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philthetube

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I have to agree that this is the simplest answer. Purchase ticket via Northern's App on a smartphone.

To do so,
- you need to register with Northern (after downloading the App, of course!)
- register a credit/ debit card with the app
- book your ticket BEFORE you board the train.

If stopped by RPIs you have a valid ticket.

Easy-peasy

As the op is still at school it is possible he will have neither a debit or credit card.
 

londonbridge

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If I were you I would mention to the guard as you board that you're getting off in a couple of minutes and you need to buy a ticket (that's usually what I do when I take the short hop from Long Preston to Hellifield, for example) - you've clearly demonstrated your intent to purchase a ticket and it's then up to them if they want to sell you one.

Away trip to West Brom this season, ate in Birmingham city centre then got on the tram to The Hawthorns. Conductor came down the tram collecting fares but he hadn't reached me so as we approached The Hawthorns I approached him and said "I need a ticket, I'm getting off here" and he replied "Just get off mate". Watched the match, came back to the station, no-one on the entrance or the platform taking fares. Got on, was perfectly prepared to ask for a return to cover the outward journey, again conductor didn't get to me, got off in Corporation Street, free ride both ways.

On top of that, I had an advance on Chiltern on the 18.15 from Moor Street to Marylebone, got there around 17:45 and saw the 17:55 on the board, found the train manager, showed him my ticket and asked if he'd let me on, which he did, so I got home a little earlier as well.

As the op is still at school it is possible he will have neither a debit or credit card.

I wouldn't be so sure-I work in a convienience store and on the school run more than a few of the kids pay with a card (or Apple/Android pay on their phone), even for 40p worth of sweets. Sometimes I wonder why a ten or eleven year old needs a debit card and/or a £500/£600 phone (several of them always seem to have the latest models) but there you go.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I wouldn't be so sure-I work in a convienience store and on the school run more than a few of the kids pay with a card (or Apple/Android pay on their phone), even for 40p worth of sweets. Sometimes I wonder why a ten or eleven year old needs a debit card and/or a £500/£600 phone (several of them always seem to have the latest models) but there you go.

A debit card? Why not? Why should adults be the only ones with the benefits of cashless payment?

As for phones, my experience (with my Scouts, I don't have my own kids) is that the parents typically upgrade every 2 years with their contract, and the kids get the old one which is generally only one model out of date and is good for another couple of years.

Mind you, as a teenager I had a Psion Series 3, which cost about £200 at the time, so roughly equivalent of a £400-500 smartphone now. I paid for it myself by saving from my paper round - so don't assume these kids are being spoilt.
 

neilmc

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I wouldn't trust any phone app for tickets in case I lose my charge and then I haven't a valid ticket. I have never lost a paper ticket stored in my wallet. Technology has to serve me rather than the business.
 

Bletchleyite

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I wouldn't trust any phone app for tickets in case I lose my charge and then I haven't a valid ticket. I have never lost a paper ticket stored in my wallet. Technology has to serve me rather than the business.

I must admit I am similarly nervous of mobile ticketing for anything other than very short journeys, until it becomes true e-ticketing, with the ticket being associated to the person and able to be verified by producing ID, reprinted at a TVM or on board etc.
 

Hadders

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I'm not against the principle of smart cards or mobile ticketing but it's. it acceptable for these types of tickets to offer less flexibility and rights to passengers without an appropriate reduction in price.
 

philthetube

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I wouldn't be so sure-I work in a convienience store and on the school run more than a few of the kids pay with a card (or Apple/Android pay on their phone), even for 40p worth of sweets. Sometimes I wonder why a ten or eleven year old needs a debit card and/or a £500/£600 phone (several of them always seem to have the latest models) but there you go.

I am not sure, I stated that it is possible he did not have one.
 

rmt4ever

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If the OP's on the way to/from school they may not have the credit/debit card required for the smartphone app

At many schools smartphones are banned. You are only allowed a simple Nokia type phone for emergency calls/messages home etc
 

gray1404

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Heard of quite a lot of people getting done this way, especially at Preston. Got on at whatever station, no chance to buy, but when they arrive they walk out the side entrance instead of going to the ticket office and get collared by stealthy RPIs <D

I think you raise a valid point here. This is sly behavior from Northern. What is someone getting off the train didn't know where the ticket office was (or indeed if the station even had one if another station) and wondered off in the slightly wrong direction, only to be "caught" by an RPI - when they have done nothing wrong.
 

exile

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On Northern trains the conductor will happily sell you a ticket regardless of whether your joining station had an open ticket office.

Except - when the machine is not working or the train is too busy, or it's late at night (when conductors tend not to emerge from their cabins except to operate doors) - in which case you're in deep trouble if you exit at a station with revenue inspectors.
 

tsr

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Just as a note here - and I've said this before, I'm sure - I'm always surprised about the attitude to ticket offices vs TVMs in Northern-land. In the south, it's inevitably the case that smaller stations often have TVMs and perhaps a part-time ticket office; TVMs are very much the priority, as you can see from the equipment installed to make GTR into a more cohesive penalty fares zone, for example (in fact, station staff are getting to "impressed" levels with regards to how well the new machines are performing, versus the uptake and reliability of the old ones).

However, around the north, it always seems to me that efforts are put in to operating manned ticket offices at stations in random locations where the slightest staff shortage or suchlike can cause major uncertainty for passengers. TVMs are an afterthought compared to employing scattered lone-working employees who may or may not be there.

I have worked on stations, assisting with ticket sales and much more besides - but as much as I like real people being present to sell tickets, and I'd rather there was always someone available on a train or at a station towards the start of any journey, to deal with queries and complex ticketing matters, TVMs certainly have their places - and some rural stations and especially the Northern area would greatly benefit from more of them. It would cost less and allow staff to be focussed on specific, busy stations or trains at peak times where machines had failed or queue-busting was needed.

A debit card? Why not? Why should adults be the only ones with the benefits of cashless payment?

As for phones, my experience (with my Scouts, I don't have my own kids) is that the parents typically upgrade every 2 years with their contract, and the kids get the old one which is generally only one model out of date and is good for another couple of years.

Mind you, as a teenager I had a Psion Series 3, which cost about £200 at the time, so roughly equivalent of a £400-500 smartphone now. I paid for it myself by saving from my paper round - so don't assume these kids are being spoilt.

I completely agree about debit cards for kids. In fact, I'd far rather they had those, as opposed to cash. Sometimes they get picky about using them on trains (you never know if they're actually telling the truth when they say "oh, it's not got money on it") but it's more secure and more flexible in many ways.

(All that coincides neatly with my own childhood - though in my case it was a now-really-quite-old Apple computer, not a phone! I didn't have a smartphone until halfway through uni. Wow, that makes me feel weirdly old-fashioned...)

At many schools smartphones are banned. You are only allowed a simple Nokia type phone for emergency calls/messages home etc

Not wishing to take us off-topic, but is this really the case? Many of my friends are teachers (of varying ages of pupils) and a close relative of mine is involved with educational strategy at regional/national level, and I've never once heard this. Obviously many, if not all, schools will have policies about the use of phones on site; I'd never question someone noting this.
 
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Bletchleyite

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I got a mobile phone in my first year at uni. Not a smartphone, they didn't exist, nor did PAYG in any form. It was £150 in 1998 money for a phone with an annual contract included, 20 minutes of talk time per month. Nobody even really knew what SMS was back then either. I was the first person in my group of friends to get one, and there was much threatening to put it in a pint. I said they'd all have them soon enough, they didn't believe me, so how wrong they were.

So you're not old :D
 

Moonshot

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Heard of quite a lot of people getting done this way, especially at Preston. Got on at whatever station, no chance to buy, but when they arrive they walk out the side entrance instead of going to the ticket office and get collared by stealthy RPIs <D


Lets just clear up this once and for all........if anyone gets on a Northern service at a station with no ticket facilities whatsoever, then they can simply pay at the end of their journey if the guard has not had chance to sell them one.

If anyone gets on a Northern service at a station with facilities , but chooses not to use them, then they will be issued a failure to purchase...and indeed early this morning whilst on a break, I witnessed exactly that....the passenger claimed they had no time to purchase one as the train was already at the platform , RPI issued a fail to purchase. It really is that simple.
 

Joe Paxton

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I got a mobile phone in my first year at uni. Not a smartphone, they didn't exist, nor did PAYG in any form. It was £150 in 1998 money for a phone with an annual contract included, 20 minutes of talk time per month. Nobody even really knew what SMS was back then either. I was the first person in my group of friends to get one, and there was much threatening to put it in a pint. I said they'd all have them soon enough, they didn't believe me, so how wrong they were.

So you're not old :D

Yeah, smartphones are pretty new in the grand scheme of things!

Ok ok, before anyone else says it, yes smartphones were a thing before iPhones came along ten years ago, but they were a fairly niche thing!

There are lots of things people don't talk about any more... nowadays it's just "minutes" in a plan (and quite likely to be unlimited), but the inclusion of cross-network minutes was a big step forward many years ago... etc etc!
 

broadgage

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Quick things to clarify:
1. I only get the train home
2. The starting station has NO ticket issuing facilities whatsoever
3. Signs on the platform instruct you to buy tickets on the train
4. I do not make the journey enough times to warrant a season ticket
5. I was asking, mainly, about the legality of getting off at the destination without paying

(quick point: I am in the middle of GCSE exams, so I'm not some 12 year old going for a cheeky train ride because he feels like it)

With no way to buy a ticket before boarding, you are doing nothing wrong in boarding the train without a ticket.
If no opportunity to pay on board presents itself then you are doing nothing wrong in leaving the TRAIN without paying.
However IMO you are wrong to leave the STATION at your destination without paying, presuming that the facility to pay exists.

If you leave the station without paying, then I suspect that you may be liable to prosecution, in theory, or more likely be asked to settle out of court.
In practice a lot depends on the layout of the station. Could an inspector lurk out of sight of the ticket office and stop you after you have walked past the ticket office and made no effort to pay?
Or is the layout of the station such that this can not be done.
 
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