North Downs Line loses first class

[Bishopstone]

GWR's timetables, and a fare search on NRE, seem to confirm First Class has been withdrawn from Reading-Gatwick services.

What's the explanation? Lack of Standard capacity; lack of sales of FC fares, or a need to use more 165s on the fasts, as some 166s head west?

I can't say enforcement was ever that great, but anecdotally the compartments were often well occupied, with a fair bit of through traffic from the 'Southern Region' to GWR Inter City destinations.

 

[SWTrainspottin]

GWR's timetables, and a fare search on NRE, seem to confirm First Class has been withdrawn from Reading-Gatwick services.

What's the explanation? Lack of Standard capacity; lack of sales of FC fares, or a need to use more 165s on the fasts, as some 166s head west?

I can't say enforcement was ever that great, but anecdotally the compartments were often well occupied, with a fair bit of through traffic from the 'Southern Region' to GWR Inter City destinations.

First Class accomodation has been declassified on majority of services operated by Turbo's to increase capacity mainly for Thames Valley services. As far as I am aware, no services operated by a Turbo have a classified first class so passengers are free to sit in it with any valid standard class ticket.

 

[Monty]

GWR's timetables, and a fare search on NRE, seem to confirm First Class has been withdrawn from Reading-Gatwick services.

What's the explanation? Lack of Standard capacity; lack of sales of FC fares, or a need to use more 165s on the fasts, as some 166s head west?

I can't say enforcement was ever that great, but anecdotally the compartments were often well occupied, with a fair bit of through traffic from the 'Southern Region' to GWR Inter City destinations.

There North Downs line has suffered from terrible overcrowding for sometime now so I'm not surprised by this.

 

[SWTrainspottin]

There North Downs line has suffered from terrible overcrowding for sometime now so I'm not surprised by this.

Has been like it for a long time. It was originally because of the Thames Valley services being overcrowed. There's no point on Thames Valley services having a classified first class anyway because it's driver only operated.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Has been like it for a long time. It was originally because of the Thames Valley services being overcrowed. There's no point on Thames Valley services having a classified first class anyway because it's driver only operated.

Is the world so bad these days that we need a guard to check people are obeying the rules?

Sad truth is it probably is!

 

[Monty]

Is the world so bad these days that we need a guard to check people are obeying the rules?

Sad truth is it probably is!

Unless you have regular ticket checks on board the answer is yes! Virtually no point in having first class if there are no onboard/revenue staff there on a regular basis.

 

[cactustwirly]

Has been like it for a long time. It was originally because of the Thames Valley services being overcrowed. There's no point on Thames Valley services having a classified first class anyway because it's driver only operated.

The North Downs line has a guard so your point is irrelevant.
The real reason why first class is removed is because the 166s are heading west to Bristol leaving the remaining declassified 165s in Reading.

 

[SWTrainspottin]

The North Downs line has a guard so your point is irrelevant.
The real reason why first class is removed is because the 166s are heading west to Bristol leaving the remaining declassified 165s in Reading.

Uh I wasn't talking about the North Downs Line at that point.. I am and was already aware this route has a guard by the way.

 

[Sean Emmett]

Meanwhile, Ascot - Guildford services, which share part of the route, have gone over to 450s which offer first class accommodation - and this is being advertised locally!

Presumably this will end in Dec 2018 when first class is set to be withdrawn from Waterloo - Reading services.

 

[cactustwirly]

Uh I wasn't talking about the North Downs Line at that point.. I am and was already aware this route has a guard by the way.

That wasn't obvious...

 

[GatwickDepress]

Is the world so bad these days that we need a guard to check people are obeying the rules?

Sad truth is it probably is!

Always been the case. From the days of mutton chops and top hats right through to boomboxes and mullets. Humans are chancers no matter what era we're in.

 

[Minstral25]

I believe GWR is keeping a number of 166's at Reading purely for the North Downs service and these will have First Class - Reading to Gatwick trains will thus keep first class and trolley service

 

[Bishopstone]

I believe GWR is keeping a number of 166's at Reading purely for the North Downs service and these will have First Class - Reading to Gatwick trains will thus keep first class and trolley service

I saw a social media response from GWR along those lines, yesterday.

If true, the above conflicts with their published timetables and the apparent lack of Gatwick-Reading first class fares, routed via Gomshall.

 

[swt_passenger]

Meanwhile, Ascot - Guildford services, which share part of the route, have gone over to 450s which offer first class accommodation - and this is being advertised locally!

Presumably this will end in Dec 2018 when first class is set to be withdrawn from Waterloo - Reading services.

The SWR Dec 2018 change announced is to future single class Aventra operated routes. It doesn't immediately follow that the split Guildford - Farnham and Aldershot - Ascot services would also change.

 

[cactustwirly]

I believe GWR is keeping a number of 166's at Reading purely for the North Downs service and these will have First Class - Reading to Gatwick trains will thus keep first class and trolley service

It's been posted on here that the plan is to transfer all the 166s to Bristol and a few 2 car 165s.
The trolley service is irrelevant as it doesn't require a 166, I've seen it on the 165s that frequently end up on Oxford fasts.

Surely first class doesn't matter anymore since 165s quite frequently replace 166s on diagrams with first class.

 

[FGW_DID]

I believe GWR is keeping a number of 166's at Reading purely for the North Downs service and these will have First Class - Reading to Gatwick trains will thus keep first class and trolley service

I saw a social media response from GWR along those lines, yesterday.

If true, the above conflicts with their published timetables and the apparent lack of Gatwick-Reading first class fares, routed via Gomshall.

It's been posted on here that the plan is to transfer all the 166s to Bristol and a few 2 car 165s.
The trolley service is irrelevant as it doesn't require a 166, I've seen it on the 165s that frequently end up on Oxford fasts.

Surely first class doesn't matter anymore since 165s quite frequently replace 166s on diagrams with first class.

In the New Year timetable there are 4x Class 166 LTV diagrams (all Gatwick work) so Reading will retain a small number.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

So it’s more like Oxford fasts are losing the first class!

 

[cactustwirly]

So it’s more like Oxford fasts are losing the first class!

Yeah but it doesn't really matter since they're mostly 165s these days.

 

[infobleep]

Meanwhile, Ascot - Guildford services, which share part of the route, have gone over to 450s which offer first class accommodation - and this is being advertised locally!

Presumably this will end in Dec 2018 when first class is set to be withdrawn from Waterloo - Reading services.

Has the first class classification and first class fares now returned to the Ascot to Guildford services or are they running with the first class declassified, as had been the case on Saturdays.

I believe GWR is keeping a number of 166's at Reading purely for the North Downs service and these will have First Class - Reading to Gatwick trains will thus keep first class and trolley service

Is there still a trolley service? I can't see I've seen one for sometime but perhaps it doesn't run at the times I'm likely to be using the train service.

Maybe the lack of first class in the timetable is a mistake. Of course if it's not in the timetable does that mean one I sit in first class as it's declassified or would it be disallowed because it's an error?

 

[A Challenge]

Get a copy of the current timetable (would recommend paper) and show it to the RPI and you should be OK

 

[JN114]

Get a copy of the current timetable (would recommend paper) and show it to the RPI and you should be OK

OK On what grounds? I’ve banged this drum countless times but thus far when challenged no-one who dishes out this advice has been able to provide some concrete evidence of it being permissible. Plenty of anecdotes of it being acceptable to guard x on day z but that doesn’t give much ground to stand on if they say no.

Removal of the “1” from paper/online timetable absolves GWR is commitment to compensate if First Class is NOT provided. It doesn’t prohibit GWR from selling it as First Class accommodation where it is provided.

 

[Sean Emmett]

Has the first class classification and first class fares now returned to the Ascot to Guildford services or are they running with the first class declassified, as had been the case on Saturdays.

Only info I have was poster at Ascot, will try to upload.

 

[infobleep]

Only info I have was poster at Ascot, will try to upload.

Thanks for that. Although not so widely advertised perhaps, first class has returned. Of course first class could have still been in place on Saturdays has the wanted to do that.

 

[Bishopstone]

I believe GWR is keeping a number of 166's at Reading purely for the North Downs service and these will have First Class - Reading to Gatwick trains will thus keep first class and trolley service

This turns-out to be the correct answer.

First Class fares have re-appeared for Gatwick-Reading via Gomshall, and GWR have confirmed an error in their online timetables which implied the withdrawal of First Class on all NDL services.

 

[W-on-Sea]

Of course the 166s have a declassified ex-first class section at one end, which in all other regards are identical to the first class section that remains at the other....and which looks convincingly enough like first class, at a glance, to deter many....so why pay extra?

 

[TEW]

I've also seen a few 3-car 165s over the last couple of days that appear to have had First Class reinstated. They have gained anti-maccassars again, and a 1 has been applied to the exterior. The labelling of the interior is pretty poor however.

 

[Kite159]

I've also seen a few 3-car 165s over the last couple of days that appear to have had First Class reinstated. They have gained anti-maccassars again, and a 1 has been applied to the exterior. The labelling of the interior is pretty poor however.

I noticed the anti-maccassars on 165104 on Tuesday evening when it was working a Reading - Basingstoke service, didn't notice a "1" on the outside though.

 

[TEW]

I noticed the anti-maccassars on 165104 on Tuesday evening when it was working a Reading - Basingstoke service, didn't notice a "1" on the outside though.

I was on 165104 last night, definitely a 1 on at least one door on one side.

 

[JonathanH]

I suspect that complaints about the lack of first class on 165s are more prevalent on the Oxford to London route than the North Downs line.

As 165s/166s in theory have little 'suburban' work from Paddington where the overcrowding was most acute and the ability to protect revenue most difficult, it makes sense to restore first class.

 

[DelW]

Boarding a 165 on the NDL on a standard ticket last Monday, I was about to head for the ex first class section until I noticed it had large 1s on the windows. No yellow stripe though.