North west Rail electrification

[387star]

Hi am I right the Preston-Manchester route will be electified? This is the line 175s were used on when TPE still had them? If this is correct I have travelled on this line

Presumably 319s will be used on this particular route? I have already asked about Liverpool-Manchester. I am more unfamiliar with the blackpool line so will leave it there. I assumed wiki would have geographical info but I could not find it through a search on google

 

[Nym]

Deal St - Bolton - Euxton is being knitted yes.

TPE Did use this route for MIA - Blackpool & North West routes (that used 175s) yes

TPE Will not be using (as is currently known) 319s, Northern possibly will, or possibly 323s, it's all up in the air at the moment.

If the timetabling and electrification oop norf is more agressive than it currently is, we will very likely be seeing the 319s, or 365s.

 

[387star]

Thanks. Does anyone have links to a map clearly showing the lines to be electrified as part of the north west scheme (so blackpool/preston/manchester/liverpool)

Living in the South I find it hard to map out the routes despite having travelled on a few of them years ago!

 

[Nym]

Phase 1:

Manchester Victoria (All platforms) - Deal St Junction - Ordstall Lane Junction
Castlefeild Junction - Ordstall Lane Junction
Ordstall Lane Junction - Eccles - Paitcroft - Newton-le-Willows

Phase 2:

Earlstown - St Helens Jcn - Liverpool Lime Street

Phase 3:

Huyton Jcn - Wigan North Western via St Helens Central

Phase 4:

Preston - Blackpool North

Phase 5:

Ordstall Lane Junction - Windsor Bridge Junction (Salford Crescent)
Deal Street Junction - Windsor Bridge Junction
Windsor Bridge Junction - Lostock Junction via Bolton
Lostock Junction - Chorley - Euxton Junction (WCML, just south of Leyland)

These are in no perticular order, other than expected completion date...

 

[OxtedL]

Here's something I put together really quickly.

IF THIS MAP IS WRONG I need to know ASAP.

 

[WatcherZero]

Here's something I put together really quickly.

IF THIS MAP IS WRONG I need to know ASAP.

Youve coloured the Atherton line and the Bolton-Wigan line which arent planned at the moment, otherwise spot on.

 

[OxtedL]

There were a couple of other minor mishaps on there (at one point Blackpool was in red... hock, but I have corrected that now, thanks.

No idea why that isn't planned now though...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Lancashire Triangle electrification project has a projected timescale:-

2013.....Manchester to Newton le Willows

2014.....Newton le Willows to Liverpool
Huyton to Wigan

2015.....Preston to Blackpool

2016.....Manchester (via Bolton) to Euxton Junction.

 

[387star]

Wow thanks for that map!
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So the electric Manchester-Scotland trains will come up that blue line from the Manchester direction which joins the WCML south of Preston?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The Bolton route- this is the route the TPW 185s use currently?

 

[lancastrian]

The Lancashire Triangle electrification project has a projected timescale:-

2013.....Manchester to Newton le Willows

2014.....Newton le Willows to Liverpool
Huyton to Wigan

2015.....Preston to Blackpool

2016.....Manchester (via Bolton) to Euxton Junction.

Well I am glad that these lines as listed are being electrified, but as usual they are only doing half a job. The Lostock Junction to Wigan North Western line sould be wired at the same time, simply because this will give route flexibility.

However the one route THAT should have been included is not, that is the Liverpool to Manchester route via Warrington Central. The lines at both ends are already electrified, all that is needed to to simply to electrify the route between to two sections of already wired up lines. This will give a kick start to electrifying the full Trans Pennine line between Both Victoria & Piccadilly, through Huddersfield & Leeds to York.

 

[tbtc]

However the one route THAT should have been included is not, that is the Liverpool to Manchester route via Warrington Central. The lines at both ends are already electrified, all that is needed to to simply to electrify the route between to two sections of already wired up lines

I agree with you, but the trouble is that the two "fast" services over this line wouldn't be replaced by EMUs (only the half hourly "stopper", mainly Pacers).

If you suggest that all four services on this line become EMU (by cutting the Scarborough/ Norwich services to only run as far as Manchester) then people start getting upset... the difficulty is that to make the most of electrification projects we are going to have to start cutting some services (avoiding as many diesels running under the wires) - not an easy one to justify "politically".

 

[Nym]

Lanc: All LDPE and Inter-Reigonal is going to be sent via Chat Moss, with the possible exception of Liverpool - Norwich.

I do agree that the CLC route should be knitted, but if it is, it will primeraly be for the benifit of the stoppers allong the route, so that 3 or 4tph all stations can be provided as metro for the line, as is needed for the growth. Too many passengers get on and off at every intermediate station to have anything else make sense for the route. Where as the chat moss route has a lot less intermediate stations, but yes, the CLC should be wired.

The problem would be where to terminate such a high frequency of CLC stoppers, all the more reason for four more platforms over fairfeild st, or some central sidings for services to turn around. ie. Pull into pt. 14, pull out into a loop between the two slow lines, driver swaps ends, pull back into 15 for the next service, alternativly, simply do a super quick turnaround on 14 or 15, but if the platforms have a chance at 6 over Fairfeild St, go for it, some West Facing bays at Piccadilly would be handy. 13/14 for Southbound through traffic, 15/16 for terminators from Oxford Road (not needing to cross the main flow and then 17/18 for westbound... Too much?

Could be somthing that can be added later after 15/16 is completed anyway. Would be handy for terminating stuff from Liverpool, and the Chat Moss (possibly). although a properly configued set of through services would work aswell, eg. Everything from Crewe continues to Liverpool via the CLC. Crossing the flow at Oxford Road is a PITA for pathing. But it is also do-able, platform 6 coming back would help with that.

Alternativly, if you want somthing pushing 6tph over the CLC, it will proberbly need Central re-opening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I agree with you, but the trouble is that the two "fast" services over this line wouldn't be replaced by EMUs (only the half hourly "stopper", mainly Pacers)

Like I said, Liverpool - Scarbrough will be going via Victoria and the Chat Moss route, and Norwich - Liverpool might be, it's not yet decided.

The idea to maximise paths at Piccadilly is to make it so nothing crosses the lines, anywhere.

So the options for the CLC are extending diesels through piccadilly, or terminating them at OR, and the same with leccys if it gets kinited

 

[WatcherZero]

The Lancashire Triangle electrification project has a projected timescale:-

2013.....Manchester to Newton le Willows

2014.....Newton le Willows to Liverpool
Huyton to Wigan

2015.....Preston to Blackpool

2016.....Manchester (via Bolton) to Euxton Junction.

I thought Manchester-Preston was being done before Preston-Blackpool and that the finish date had slipped to 2017.

 

[tbtc]

I thought Manchester-Preston was being done before Preston-Blackpool and that the finish date had slipped to 2017.

Sounds familiar. Manchester - Bolton - Preston is a much bigger priority than the Preston - Blackpool section in my eyes.

 

[Nym]

Yes, but Manchester - Bolton - Preston is much harder to do, many more cuttings and Farnworth Tunnels, I suspect they'll be working on it at the same time as Blackpool...

 

[Howardh]

If they do Preston-Blackpool first that will allow the inter-cities to return to that line (??). Hmmph... the time Bolton is electrified, I'll be nearly 60, and by then all the cables will have been nicked anyway. Mind you, a good strong current might put them off a bit....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I thought Manchester-Preston was being done before Preston-Blackpool and that the finish date had slipped to 2017.

You will note that I took the trouble to word my heading as projected timescale which will most probably be as accurate as the projected timescale of the openings of three new Manchester Metrolink system lines currently under construction.

Can I ask where the information about the changes that you have stated above, that contravenes the original projected starting dates, came from? This seems a case of very poor information disemmination on the part of National Rail, to contradict their original published information so soon.

Has there been any political interferance in this change of timings?