Northern 180s to be withdrawn by 03/12

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by jcollins, 28 Oct 2011.

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  1. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    The last planned day of Northern using 180s has been reported as being the 3rd December, with the last planned date they'll use 2 diagrams being a week earlier. They'll go in to maintenance before being returned to have things like the guard door controlled changed back to be driver door control and to try and ensure they don't break down on their journey home.
     
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  3. T163R

    T163R Member

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    Oh my, the things that have happened to the 180s...

    The Class 180, or the train that shouldn't exist...
     
  4. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

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    Wooooo...looks like it's back to Pacers! :lol::roll:

    Mind you, they seem to be forever replaced by other units, or am I just unlucky? I can't exactly travel around on most weekdays, and they go to bed at the weekend!
     
  5. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    Supposed to be replaced by pairs of 150s (or 156s). In the last couple of weeks both diagrams have been 180s although there was a period a while ago where only one set was available for service. Obviously with 180108 being out of service for a few months the pressure on the other 2 has increased so that hasn't helped and makes them more noticeable when they aren't around. Today the Victoria diagram was a single 150....
     
  6. Paul Sidorczuk

    Paul Sidorczuk Veteran Member

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    At least I had the pleasure of riding on a 180 from Bolton to Manchester Piccadilly, on the service to Hazel Grove, earlier this week, to remember them by.
     
  7. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    Yes I think it's supposed to be 156+150 combinations replacing the 180s. Merseyside are set to be getting 2x142s and 142+150 combinations replacing quite a few of their 156 diagrams from December.
     
  8. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    That's a bit unfair, I do rather like the 180s.

    Just a shame that they weren't DEMUs, or built as 7 car, or to a gauge that could be accommodated readily in IC locations such as Birmingham...

    Or even switched to 125mph capable powered EMU bogies with a new build pantograph coach. Expensive though.
     
  9. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Just a shame they weren't reliable...
     
  10. 175001

    175001 Member

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    The 180 on the Blackpool on Weds went kerplunk again, we won't miss them.
     
  11. route:oxford

    route:oxford Established Member

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    Indeed

    That's why I mentioned the bit about DEMU.

    They have the same engines as a Voyager - one of the most reliable units ever.
     
  12. BR Blue

    BR Blue Member

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    Do the Class 180s have a long term future? They are only ten years old, but have a troublesome history.

    The shortage of 125mph capable units means that the class 180s are getting used for now. When the Hitachi IEP trains start to appear, in five years time, a number of HST sets will be available. These will be put into use elsewhere. The mk3 sets, in particular, could be made post 2020 compliant.

    As more routes get electrified the need for fast diesels will be reduced. Unlike the 220/221/222 DEMUs, the 180s cannot be converted by adding an additional panto car.

    I think their future looks bleak.
     
  13. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    Not nesseserally, I think they have a future either in Scotland or on the B&H line (as in my world this would become an Exeter - Paddington Shuttle)
     
  14. HSTEd

    HSTEd Established Member

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    please dont brutally murder me for suggesting this.... but if HSTs do make the DDA compliance deadline (plug doors and disabled toilets and all that)... what about replacing two trailers in each formation with pantograph vehicles and making them electrodiesel?

    They are diesel-electric after all :D
     
  15. Nym

    Nym Established Member

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    I won't brutally murder you, but by the time you've done all the development for the control system, you might aswell build a new train.

    The class 43s work in a very different way to the 22x series, if you want me to go into it, again, rather than searching the forums for when I explained last time. Then do please ask, but I'm not explaining it needlessly.
     
  16. mallard

    mallard Established Member

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    It would be much easier just to convert the Cl43s to electric/bi-mode or replace them completely.
     
  17. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    This sounds like a good excuse for a trip to Blackpool...
     
  18. WestCoast

    WestCoast Established Member

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    I know! I went to catch the 1147 to Man Vic from Preston, only to find a 142 operating the diagram. I can only travel around at weekends, so I never use them.

    You might find a 142 waiting, although I don't suppose that will bother you too much!:lol:
     
  19. Philip

    Philip Established Member

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    So do I take it that Manchester-Preston (and Blackpool) will finally see the end of the Coradia family operating along here after 11 years? (minus 2007 and 2008)

    The same time 5 years ago TPE waved goodbye to the 175s and at the time I doubt anyone would've thought Adalantes would be working Northern services along there a couple of years after!
     
  20. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    I don't think their future is bleak. After all GC and Hull Trains are using them and seem quite happy with them. The Northern trio are to move to Old Oak Common once they are withdrawn from traffic in the North West and are expected to enter service and be eventually refurbished with FGW along with 2 sets that are in store giving them 5 sets. I was told that FGW are to use them on Hereford(?) to Paddington peak services. When they return to the GWML that will see all 14 sets working on the network.

    The 175 was also riddled with faults when they were new, but care and attention to sorting them out has seen their reliability climb and they now seem to be running very well. I see no reason why the 180s can't be made more reliable with the same care and attention. When they work they are a fantastic train.
     
  21. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Both Open Access companies have had to cancel a number of services in recent months
     
  22. ChrisCooper

    ChrisCooper Established Member

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    I'm going to be in Blackpool next weekend for the last weekend of the traditional trams, coming back on the Tuesday. Do the 180s run fixed diagrams, or is it pot luck? What services are most likely to have them? I think they are mainly on Blackpool-Victorias, so if I got one to Victoria would I be able to use a ticket routed via Manchester on the tram to Picadilly?
     
  23. driver9000

    driver9000 Established Member

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    Their fixed workings are in the 'Frequently requested diagrams' thread. The Hazel Grove services get priority when there is only 1 available.

    http://railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=54341
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Every operator no matter what they run is bound to find themselves in that situation from time to time. GC and HT run small fleets with little contingency so they have less of an option to move stock around to cover the services as a larger operator might be able to do. From what I can gather their 180s don't do too badly on the whole despite the recent cancellations.
     
  24. anthony263

    anthony263 Established Member

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    There was talk of FGW using a class on a peak hour service from London Paddington to Henley on Thames. I also think the class 180's were to be used on short working's from London Paddington - Oxford/Great Malvern with the hst's working all the London Paddington - Hereford services.

    This should also release some class 165/166's to be used on other services which should help during the peaks.
     
  25. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

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    Apart from one public tender document, we've not seen anything official relating to 180s returning to FGW have we?
     
  26. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    Would a 5-car set (a single 180) be sufficent for a Paddington - Exeter semi-fast/slow in addition to the Paddinton - Plymouth/Penzance fast IC125s? If not, could a 180 be made to work in multiple with an IEP EMU or class 220 bi-mode to save fuel while under the wires, then drop the IEP or 220 off at Reading or Newbury? If neither of those would work, I expect you'd need to get all 14 180s to Great Western to operate the service.
     
  27. richw

    richw Established Member

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    a 2 car set would be sufficient for exeter services off peak, west of newbury!
     
  28. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    Maybe, but would a 5-car 180 cope east of Newbury/Reading since the service I'm disscussing would go through to Paddington? Maybe you could increase capacity by turning the 180's first class area to standard and running a standard-class only service.
     
  29. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    If loadings are very different on different parts of the route then why not do like TPE and EMT and have multiple DMUs joined up running the busy part and a single DMU for the quieter part?

    Sprinters might be too slow for a Paddington service but LM and Scotrail have 170s on services that are more suited to 158s, so I'm sure a swap could be arranged.
     
  30. richw

    richw Established Member

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    but those same 180s will be operating through reading to paddington anyway on whatever route they are on.
     
  31. Rhydgaled

    Rhydgaled Established Member

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    That's what I was thinking you could do if loadings are too high east of Reading, but I doubt Great Western would have enough 180s to double them up between Reading and Paddington AND run the full hourly service to Exeter that Nym mentioned and I've heard proposed on here before.

    I don't get you. As far as the roumors on here and FGW coffe shop have been going, FGW would use 5 180s on a few Cotswolds line services (not the whole lot, they wouldn't have enough 180s) with the units working in pairs (ie. a 10-car set) on the busier sections nearer London.

    What I'm taking about is when 5-car bi-modes (either IEP or as I would have it 220s) take over the Cotswolds line, again working in multiple for the busy sections. Then, the roumors say, there might be an hourly semi-fast/slow service to Exeter, and Great Western might gain the use of the Hull trains 180s as well (thanks to TPE electrification) but not the Grand Central ones.
     
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