Northern ban e-scooters, hoverboards and e-skateboards

[High Dyke]

Northern bans ALL e-scooters, hoverboards and e-skateboards from its 345 trains and 500+ stations

Northern | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

www.northernrailway.co.uk

Northern is introducing a ban on all e-scooters, hoverboards and e-skateboards across its trains and stations in the North of England.

The ruling, which comes into effect on Thursday (1 December 2022), is due to the potential fire risk posed by the lithium batteries in these devices, which can overheat and catch fire.

Electric wheelchairs and e-bikes are exempt from the ban – as are mobility scooters for those with access needs, as long as they are registered with the train operator’s Mobility Scooter Permit Scheme – which checks devices by a range of criteria to make sure they are safe to use on-board.

Tricia Williams, chief operating officer at Northern, said: “The safety of our customers and staff is our number one priority.

 

[Ashley Hill]

At a safety briefing we were shown CCTV footage of one going up in flames on an LU service. It wasn’t just the fire that was surprising but the smoke and fumes prior to ignition,they filled the coach within seconds. They are both heavy and bulky and passenger’s tend to squeeze them into the airline seats with them. According to the attached clip TfL are reviewing their policy.

 

[burneside]

That must be an old video, TFL banned e-scooters and the like on the network last December.

 

[Need2]

All well and good if it’s ‘policed’.
Down my way there’s virtually no gate lines and nobody gives a damn!

 

[Runningaround]

The way things are e-scooters are a viable alternative to train travel on short journeys if I turn up and find the train cancelled, I could probably make the journey on an e-bike or scooter in the time that the next service would have. I wonder if banning them means that option is removed and therefore the passenger will buy a ticket for the next train.

 

[Ashley Hill]

That must be an old video, TFL banned e-scooters and the like on the network last December.

Yes I’ve just noticed it was November last year.
Do battery locos/units use lithium batteries?

 

[lyndhurst25]

If this ban is about Li-ion battery safety, then how come e-bikes are still allowed?

 

[Bungle73]

If this ban is about Li-ion battery safety, then how come e-bikes are still allowed?

Exactly. It makes no logical sense. Some things with Li-ion batteries are banned, but others are not. Some things are banned, but others aren't because it's not convenient to ban them. Phones and laptops have such batteries, why aren't they banned?

 

[skyhigh]

Phones and laptops have such batteries, why aren't they banned?

Phones and laptops generally use high quality batteries from reputable suppliers. Same with ebikes. That's not so often the case with escooters unfortunately.

 

[Bungle73]

Phones and laptops generally use high quality batteries from reputable suppliers. Same with ebikes. That's not so often the case with escooters unfortunately.

Exhibit A: Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exhibit A: Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

I don't believe that finding an exception to the rule means it is not the case that phones and laptops generally use high quality batteries etc.

Meanwhile you can't ban phones and laptops from trains without meaning most users would have to switch to cars, but very few people need to take an e-scooter on the train given that it'd be illegal to ride it to your destination from the station.

 

[Bevan Price]

Exactly. It makes no logical sense. Some things with Li-ion batteries are banned, but others are not. Some things are banned, but others aren't because it's not convenient to ban them. Phones and laptops have such batteries, why aren't they banned?

Because it would be unenforceable unless you searched every passenger and their luggage.
You can see escooters, etc.

In addition, many Northern trains are too small to have seating space wasted by things like scooters, skateboards, etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In addition, many Northern trains are too small to have seating space wasted by things like scooters, skateboards, etc.

Unpowered scooters, skateboards etc are permitted.

 

[skyhigh]

Exhibit A: Samsung Galaxy Note 7.

If you'd actually taken the trouble to read what I'd written, "phones and laptops generally use high quality batteries".

And if you want to use the example of the Note 7, once it was realised there was an issue, recalls were issued and remote software updates were issued to disable potentially harmful devices. If the new iPhone had the same issue I imagine Apple would take similar actions to remove harmful devices as soon as possible. The same would apply to HP or Lenovo if their laptops had the same issue

Would you get that from an unknown online seller of what is essentially sub-standard electronic junk on wheels? No, they'd just vanish and never be seen again and the dangerous products would stay in use.

 

[muz379]

Lithium battery fires once they get started are especially difficult to extinguish - and can actually be made worse with the types of extinguishers often to hand . They also emit quite a lot of heat and smoke .

Exactly. It makes no logical sense. Some things with Li-ion batteries are banned, but others are not. Some things are banned, but others aren't because it's not convenient to ban them. Phones and laptops have such batteries, why aren't they banned?

I suspect it is probably harder for an operator to ban e-bikes than e scooters which are already in the conditions of travel as down to operators discretion .

In addition to the points made about phone and laptop batteries generally conforming to set standards , they are also much smaller so can be slipped in pockets and bags/luggage . What do you propose searching everyones bags etc ?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Lithium battery fires once they get started are especially difficult to extinguish - and can actually be made worse with the types of extinguishers often to hand . They also emit quite a lot of heat and smoke .

They can also keep burning for several days after the fact, depending on the size of the size and quantity of the batteries.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Moderator note: Some posts moved to the following thread:

If the railway banned mobile phones and laptops, would it be near enough empty?

It's not going to - but with lithium battery fires going on... If the railway banned mobile phones and laptops, would it be near enough empty? In addition to the points made about phone and laptop batteries generally conforming to set standards , they are also much smaller so can be slipped...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What exactly is a 'hoverboard'? Thought that this was just a prop, as used by the Marty McFly character in the second of the "Back to the Future" films?!

 

[bengley]

Ebike batteries are often no better than these so called dangerous scooter batteries. You can buy a cheap Chinese ebike with a crap battery and take it on a train no problem. It makes no sense.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ebike batteries are often no better than these so called dangerous scooter batteries. You can buy a cheap Chinese ebike with a crap battery and take it on a train no problem. It makes no sense.

Most ebikes are not cheap Chinese tat. Whereas almost all escooters are, because there is no legitimate market for them.

(They may be made in China, indeed they probably are, but that doesn't make them tat - it's all about the level of quality control specified).

 

[43066]

Most ebikes are not cheap Chinese tat. Whereas almost all escooters are, because there is no legitimate market for them.

Not sure how you get to that conclusion. You can buy them from major retailers such as Argos and Currys, so at least those ones presumably aren’t tat.

They can be legitimately used on private land (I accept many aren’t, but that’s beside the point).

EMR are also banning them imminently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You can buy them from major retailers such as Argos and Currys, so at least those ones presumably aren’t tat.

Those ones not, but most of them are bought online and are.

Once there's a UK standard for legal ones, with UKCA or CE certification on the battery, they'll likely be unbanned.

 

[43066]

Those ones not, but most of them are bought online and are.

Once there's a UK standard for legal ones, with UKCA or CE certification on the battery, they'll likely be unbanned.

Difficult to argue there’s no legitimate market when they’re stocked in major retailers, though?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Difficult to argue there’s no legitimate market when they’re stocked in major retailers, though?

I'd not say so. There's nowhere for most people to use one legally, thus selling them is grossly irresponsible. Really the Government missed a trick by not regulating sale as well as use.

 

[Need2]

Those ones not, but most of them are bought online and are.

Once there's a UK standard for legal ones, with UKCA or CE certification on the battery, they'll likely be unbanned.

May I ask where you get your information from regarding the above and your previous statement that if you banned mobile phones on trains and planes then no one would travel?

 

[North-Valiant]

My Dad had a bulging Li-Ion battery in the summer, he decided to do a misinformed scientific experiment and stuck a rake through it in the back garden. It promptly filled garden with smoke and we had to leave because we couldn't breathe, I imagine there is potential for people to die if one blew up inside of a train

 

[Bletchleyite]

I imagine there is potential for people to die if one blew up inside of a train

How many people stick rakes through lithium batteries on trains? This really is getting tenuous.

When they fail by themselves there's usually a bit of warning by them getting very hot and starting to smoke. Enough time on a train with opening windows to dump it out, or if not enough time to move away from it into another coach.

 

[North-Valiant]

How many people stick rakes through lithium batteries on trains? This really is getting tenuous.

When they fail by themselves there's usually a bit of warning by them getting very hot and starting to smoke. Enough time on a train with opening windows to dump it out, or if not enough time to move away from it into another coach.

i imagine the answer to your first question is probably zero, there will likely be a news story the first time it happens.

Although if we are talking about a smoking e-scooter, are they quite heavy and difficult to throw out of things? Genuine curiosity as I've never used one

 

[Bletchleyite]

Although if we are talking about a smoking e-scooter, are they quite heavy and difficult to throw out of things? Genuine curiosity as I've never used one

We're talking about mobile phones, not e-scooters.

 

[pdeaves]

What exactly is a 'hoverboard'? Thought that this was just a prop, as used by the Marty McFly character in the second of the "Back to the Future" films?!

These things: https://www.hoverboards.co.uk/flyboard-red-classic