Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates

[superkev]

501021's excellent blogspot reports 195102 and 195116-121 in service today.
See https://merseyrailpep507.blogspot.com/2019/07/special-update-all-change.html
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[EE Andy b1]

They also showed departure boards for at least some stations on approach which will be handy for interchanges.

Must have missed that! Lol

 

[ainsworth74]

What’s the current method of operation on these? Is it driver release, conductor close from the last set of doors? What does the GOP look like?

Assuming it's the same as a 331 (and I don't see why it wouldn't be) see attached.

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

Could anyone advise what diagrams the pair of 195s work and when they split if they do cheers for any help provided

 

[berneyarms]

Could anyone advise what diagrams the pair of 195s work and when they split if they do cheers for any help provided

They are all in this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/unread

 

[D.K.TAYLOR]

They are all in this thread:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/unread

Cheers Circuit 6 and 7 much obliged

 

[mrcaa]

Assuming it's the same as a 331 (and I don't see why it wouldn't be) see attached.

The guards on the 16:45 Airport to Liverpool has a lot of trouble with this. Think they weren’t holding the button for long enough or something but they got the hang of it in the end. I suppose these are the teething problems if you don’t open them on the test runs.

 

[prod_pep]

I'm on 195102 which is working the 1816 Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Airport. It's OK but fairly underwhelming in all honesty. The interior is nice enough but the ride is bumpy near the front and the interior is already riddled with rattles. The brakes are very noisy when stopping.

We also ran into technical difficulties at South Parkway requiring two restarts so we're well behind time now. Early days of course so not surprising.

 

[pompeyfan]

Assuming it's the same as a 331 (and I don't see why it wouldn't be) see attached.

Thank you. Nice to see it’s a full panel, and not just a green button and a blue button.

Are they continuing with their policy of only dispatching from rear of the train or are guards allowed a bit more freedom to roam?

 

[ainsworth74]

Are they continuing with their policy of only dispatching from rear of the train or are guards allowed a bit more freedom to roam?

As far as I'm aware the policy has always been they cannot dispatch from the front. But on a great deal of Northern stock this means there is only the rear left! 14xs only have panels at front and rear. 156s the same. 150s as well I believe. Which is a serious chunk of their fleet!

Certainly I've seen Northern conductors use the middle panels on 158s, 319s and 333s. And indeed the conductor on the 331 I was on earlier was dispatching from the middle of the train.

 

[Tractor37]

Whatever you call them, they are between the saloon and the vestibule, and nobody ever closes them.

No, they won't get shut, unless there's a fire in one of the vehicles.

 

[js1000]

Thank you. Nice to see it’s a full panel, and not just a green button and a blue button.

Are they continuing with their policy of only dispatching from rear of the train or are guards allowed a bit more freedom to roam?

I travelled on them to and from work today. The guards are playing it safe and I think they will be for a few weeks yet while they familiarise themselves. No ticket checks, just concentrate on getting the doors right.

The doors are a bit dodgy and ADSO is new technology for Northern crew. Apparently they went a bit haywire at Oxford Road and closed while people were getting off. On the way home they were a bit stroppy and we had a 30 second wait before the conductor managed to release the doors.

A 195 service also overshot the platform at Mauldeth Road. I suspect the brakes are not as smooth as they will be yet before they receive some grease a few times.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm genuinely impressed that Northern managed to get 10 or whatever number of units it was today, for the inauguration of the Civity fleet on both sides of the Pennines.
None of the painfully slow build-up that seems to apply to other new fleets like 800, 700, 345 etc.
And they beat TPE's CAF fleets to service introduction.
With multiple routes already cleared and all the necessary fleet approvals secured, I hope we can look forward to a rapid roll-out across the network.
(Accompanied by the equally rapid withdrawal of the Pacers).
The gloom about multiple faults and lack of training seems to have been exaggerated.
Twitter is asking why Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram were not present to welcome the new fleet to their areas, after all their complaints.
Maybe they were on last week's press run.
I hope Patrick McLoughlin was one of the guests - he overruled his DfT officials to ensure that new trains were procured for Northern.

 

[ainsworth74]

No, they won't get shut, unless there's a fire in one of the vehicles.

Must have missed the fire on the 156 I was on recently where they were shut!

 

[hooverboy]

I'm genuinely impressed that Northern managed to get 10 or whatever number of units it was today, for the inauguration of the Civity fleet on both sides of the Pennines.
None of the painfully slow build-up that seems to apply to other new fleets like 800, 700, 345 etc.
And they beat TPE's CAF fleets to service introduction.
With multiple routes already cleared and all the necessary fleet approvals secured, I hope we can look forward to a rapid roll-out across the network.
(Accompanied by the equally rapid withdrawal of the Pacers).
The gloom about multiple faults and lack of training seems to have been exaggerated.
Twitter is asking why Andy Burnham and Steve Rotheram were not present to welcome the new fleet to their areas, after all their complaints.
Maybe they were on last week's press run.
I hope Patrick McLoughlin was one of the guests - he overruled his DfT officials to ensure that new trains were procured for Northern.

well the 700 and 345 problems were (are) purely software.
you think doing group bourdon test is bad, then try scrolling through reams of source code, just to find some idiot has put a comma where a full stop should be, or a semicolon where there should be a colon.
one tiny mistake in syntax like that is all it takes to bu99er up system control.

 

[snail]

They also showed departure boards for at least some stations on approach which will be handy for interchanges.

The 1654 Barrow service was randomly shouting out station names it had already passed but the screen seemed ok. I like the timings screen with an ETA although the connections page was stuck.

 

[snail]

Already done, . Happily, sort of, this means that my first journey planners for a 195 will result in another delay repay claim for Northern. Totally agree, not good enough at all.

Same for me though I arrived in Manchester only 25 minutes late. Sigh. I know I can claim for 15 minutes but it's a paltry amount.

 

[samuelmorris]

well the 700 and 345 problems were (are) purely software.

Not all of them. Software can't run a door off its hinges...

 

[pompeyfan]

As far as I'm aware the policy has always been they cannot dispatch from the front. But on a great deal of Northern stock this means there is only the rear left! 14xs only have panels at front and rear. 156s the same. 150s as well I believe. Which is a serious chunk of their fleet!

Certainly I've seen Northern conductors use the middle panels on 158s, 319s and 333s. And indeed the conductor on the 331 I was on earlier was dispatching from the middle of the train.

Ah thank you, that’s very insightful, it makes you wonder why they welded shut the saloon panels on the cascaded 150 if they don’t have a rule prohibiting it. Glad they’ve gone in smoothly on the whole

 

[samrammstein]

My TPE has just been delayed out of Lime Street by a 195 working this* which departed at 1910 but has just returned to platform 4. Huyton/Chat Moss services were using the other pair of lines through Edge Hill to get around it.


*5F91 1910 Liverpool Lime Street to Preston Croft Street Sdgs
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y68131/2019/07/01/advanced

 

[J-2739]

A 195 service also overshot the platform at Mauldeth Road. I suspect the brakes are not as smooth as they will be yet before they receive some grease a few times.

Off the topic, but Christ, didn't the driver enter the platform at a high speed!
Perhaps when the brakes are smoother, then such overshooting will not occur, whilst being able to save time by not crawling into the platform, as done previously.

 

[EE Andy b1]

Disc brakes need a few seconds to warm up and start biting, especially new one like those.
Should hope the brake squeal will go after more running.
As someone said brakes are a bit notchy on application. Still on a learning curve.

 

[hooverboy]

Off the topic, but Christ, didn't the driver enter the platform at a high speed!
Perhaps when the brakes are smoother, then such overshooting will not occur, whilst being able to save time by not crawling into the platform, as done previously.

that will ride up with wear and driver knowledge for sure.
not much different to driving a new car/motorbike.

you're always instructed to drive conservatively for a couple of thousand miles until all bits have properly worn in.

 

[js1000]

The brakes need bedding in and a few coats of grease. Both the units I travelled on today had squeaky brakes (as opposed to screechy). It'll take a couple of months.

 

[js1000]

No-one has yet commented on the lack of doors between carriages - a first in the north surely, but I know London Overground units are like this. It could improve personal security but is heat going to be lost through the gangway connections in the winter months? My journey was from Manchester to the airport and back. The driver said it was good to drive and the only issue was getting the doors to stay open when I got off at Oxford Road.

Why is it a problem at Oxford Road? Is it to do with ASDO? Someone at worked mentioned the door slammed suddenly shut on passengers disembarking at OR this morning.

 

[hooverboy]

The brakes need bedding in and a few coats of grease. Both the units I travelled on today had squeaky brakes (as opposed to screechy). It'll take a couple of months.

if it's anything like motorbikes ,new sintered pads are always squeaky(even with a fairly liberal amount of copper-slick on the back)

best advice there when new is to use them often but very lightly,instead of really jamming it at the last minute.That will take the coating off and give you a more smooth and progressive brake,rather than a sudden jerky one

 

[prod_pep]

I've also now ridden 195119 back from Manchester to Liverpool and this rode somewhat better. Fewer rattles but still one or two present and the bogies 'clanked' less on this unit. The PIS was working on this, unlike 195102, and it proved to be a nimble runner, making time back well between Oxford Road and Widnes.

Overall impressions are reasonably positive: the 195s are a big step up from the 156s, but I was a little disappointed by the rattles and vibrations which seemed somewhat excessive for a brand new train.

 

[simon7929]

As far as I'm aware the policy has always been they cannot dispatch from the front. But on a great deal of Northern stock this means there is only the rear left! 14xs only have panels at front and rear. 156s the same. 150s as well I believe. Which is a serious chunk of their fleet!

Certainly I've seen Northern conductors use the middle panels on 158s, 319s and 333s. And indeed the conductor on the 331 I was on earlier was dispatching from the middle of the train.

The ex ScotRail 156s are fitted with door controls in the middle.

 

[mikemcniven]

Some from today on the launch day of the 195's in service. Been a few issues with the PIS (Passenger Information System) onboard taking a while on some services to load up (longest I experienced was departing Manchester Piccadilly and still nothing!) as well as some door issues relating to minor software issues caused by the ADSO as well as from what I've heard suggested human error.

Anyway to the pictures

195120 (195102 on the rear) and 195121 side by side at Manchester Airport on services to Liverpool and Barrow respectively


Northern 195120 & 195121 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

195117 at Wigan bound for Barrow


Northern 195117 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

195119 at Manchester Oxford Road bound for Liverpool via Warrington


Northern 195119 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

195118 at East Didsbury bound for Barrow


Northern 195118 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

195102 departing Manchester Piccadilly bound for Liverpool Lime Street

195116 at Manchester Airport after arrival from Barrow-in-Furness


Northern 195116 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

Some internal images


Inside the 195 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Inside the 195 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Inside the 195 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Inside the 195 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Inside the 195 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr


Inside the 195 by Mike McNiven, on Flickr

 

[yrreb]

A question about the Class 195s and Class 331s as a whole - Is there an expected date for all of them to be in service? How many do Northern intend to introduce on, say, a monthly basis?