Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

[Brian Aylott]

Heaton have around 7 158 units. I would expect more to be allocated as it is expected that Heaton will get all the 16 Perkins engine fltted examples eventually. Though in truth you will still see NL units regularly operating around Newcastle and the North East.

Around 7?
They have now 16!
Brian

 

[PHILIPE]

Assuming it's an unfounded rumour, I expect you'd have to wait until the latter end of August for sanity to return.

(I have wondered whether someone in the upper echelons could be making inquiries, while the shop floor staff haven't been told anything in case nothing happens.)

I've a feeling that once withdrawn from Northern, bureaucracy wouldn't allow them to go somewhere else.

 

[jonesy3001]

The North Rail Scene FB page.

thanks

 

[krus_aragon]

I've a feeling that once withdrawn from Northern, bureaucracy wouldn't allow them to go somewhere else.

And, as time marches on, they'd barely get four months to stretch their legs before they were withdrawn again.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The supposed reason for sending them to Wales is so that TfW can then release more Sprinters for PRM mods. However with a large number of units still needing the PRM work there's only limited capacity to actually do the work. There's no point freeing up a 150 if it'll just be sat at Crewe waiting its turn!

 

[PHILIPE]

The supposed reason for sending them to Wales is so that TfW can then release more Sprinters for PRM mods. However with a large number of units still needing the PRM work there's only limited capacity to actually do the work. There's no point freeing up a 150 if it'll just be sat at Crewe waiting its turn!

The sending to TFW seems to be speculation all along and developed into a rumour which then spread and believed. If there is any hard evidence of a fact please feel free to let me know so as to clear the doubts up. I understand 3 x 150s are being dealt with at a time.

 

[anamyd]

TfW should still take on at least some of these first 10 "ex-Northern" 142s for capacity if nothing else, even if only for 4 months. Anything to avoid the "Twitter post" gangway lines of standees on busy services. They can just go straight into service unlike 144s which would've needed crew training.

 

[anamyd]

Just wondering when this persistent South Wales rumour will stop. Even today, TFW have NO knowledge of them but the suggestion is going to be put to them.

By who...?

 

[superkev]

I'm puzzled how northern can lose 10 units as there still short forming trains around Leeds Manchester.
K

 

[Paul_10]

I'm puzzled how northern can lose 10 units as there still short forming trains around Leeds Manchester.
K

More 195s are due to go into service on that date I believe? Which then allows an internal cascade allowing the pacers to be withdrawn? All will be revealed by the 12th I suppose.

 

[PHILIPE]

By who...?

Being fed back via Twitter Feed.

 

[Cardiff123]

The sending to TFW seems to be speculation all along and developed into a rumour which then spread and believed. If there is any hard evidence of a fact please feel free to let me know so as to clear the doubts up. I understand 3 x 150s are being dealt with at a time.

There was an article in the January 16th issue of RAIL magazine that TfW were looking into getting hold of Northern 144s once they came off lease.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The sending to TFW seems to be speculation all along and developed into a rumour which then spread and believed. If there is any hard evidence of a fact please feel free to let me know so as to clear the doubts up. I understand 3 x 150s are being dealt with at a time.

I agree entirely: my use of the word "supposed" should indicate my scepticism towards the idea!

 

[PaulHarding150]

View attachment 66736

There was an article in the January 16th issue of RAIL magazine that TfW were looking into getting hold of Northern 144s once they came off lease.

But we're seven months on and nothing's happened yet so time is running out.

Extra capacity is great if it can be found. It'll help with the inevitable bad weather in Autumn and winter, but could create the scenario in January when people are used to extra capacity and then bang TfW's 30 Pacers plus say eight to ten from Northern all go overnight and overcrowding gets worse.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

View attachment 66736

There was an article in the January 16th issue of RAIL magazine that TfW were looking into getting hold of Northern 144s once they came off lease.

Though with the 144s now proposed to stay in service beyond the new year with a derogation, that is even more unlikely.

142s more likely, but even then not particularly likely.

 

[darloscott]

How many 158s do Heaton require? They currently have 35 142s allocated but are supposedly gaining additional 156s. Will be interesting to see if Heaton units will have diagrams across Yorkshire as they do now, or whether the ECS moves up and down the ECML will cease

Having seen a list from Sheffield's morning runout they do indeed have diagrams in Yorkshire - the 6 158's there seem to be split between 4 HT and 2 NL diagrams now...

 

[Ribbleman]

There is no doubt that TfW were interested in taking some Pacers when released by Northern. I was at an address in Chester given by a senior member of their management last winter and asked that specific question, receiving a positive reply. However, that was over 6 months ago. and at the time there was an expectation that Northern would have withdrawn some sets by Spring. Although there is still no date for either operator to have their Class 769 sets in traffic, given the passage of time TfW may have revised their thoughts on the matter.

 

[northernchris]

Having seen a list from Sheffield's morning runout they do indeed have diagrams in Yorkshire - the 6 158's there seem to be split between 4 HT and 2 NL diagrams now...

Thanks for the info, good to know!

 

[Kite159]

There is no doubt that TfW were interested in taking some Pacers when released by Northern. I was at an address in Chester given by a senior member of their management last winter and asked that specific question, receiving a positive reply. However, that was over 6 months ago. and at the time there was an expectation that Northern would have withdrawn some sets by Spring. Although there is still no date for either operator to have their Class 769 sets in traffic, given the passage of time TfW may have revised their thoughts on the matter.

In theory assuming the 142s being withdrawn first are not due exams or are partly broken, it would be sensible for them to head to the Valleys to assist with the lack of 769s, and 150s being away for mods. I can't imagine there will be much different between a Northern 142 & Welsh 142 for the staff point of view, interiors will be different but at the end of the day if they can be used to double up some single units, a bench seat is better than being left on the platform.

 

[anamyd]

In theory assuming the 142s being withdrawn first are not due exams or are partly broken, it would be sensible for them to head to the Valleys to assist with the lack of 769s, and 150s being away for mods. I can't imagine there will be much different between a Northern 142 & Welsh 142 for the staff point of view, interiors will be different but at the end of the day if they can be used to double up some single units, a bench seat is better than being left on the platform.

Agreed!

 

[geoffk]

Comparing 142s to 144s, it's easy as a layperson or enthusiast to say that the 142s should be first in line for the acetylene torch, as the worst of the Pacers are definitely 142s: the MerseyTravel examples.

On the other hand, 142s have only been written off in crashes whereas two 143s have spontaneously combusted, and the centre car of 144023 spent a long time out of traffic after a fire and was supposedly close to being written off at one point. I've lost count of how often I've been on a 3-car 144 with an engine out... and I don't think they have an "eco-mode" like the 185s!

Idle thought: how possible would it be to restart the 144Evolution programme? Could a "bare minimum requirements" version be rushed through on a few 144s before the end of the year?

Apparently ten Pacers are to be withdrawn next week; five at Heaton and five at Newton Heath. Not sure if this is covered on another thread. Will there be ten new 195s in service to replace them, or will it mean even more short-formed trains?

 

[Cardiff123]

If TfW don't secure the first Pacers to go next week, I assume they'll be returned to Angel Trains and then will they be stored or scrapped straight away?

 

[PHILIPE]

If TfW don't secure the first Pacers to go next week, I assume they'll be returned to Angel Trains and then will they be stored or scrapped straight away?

I can't see it happening. If they are coming out of service for withdrawal they will be withdrawn as this is a different situation to merely coming off lease. Unless some arm twisting is done.

 

[Chester1]

Apparently ten Pacers are to be withdrawn next week; five at Heaton and five at Newton Heath. Not sure if this is covered on another thread. Will there be ten new 195s in service to replace them, or will it mean even more short-formed trains?

It's not a direct swap. Northern are introducing 3 coach units first, they have nearly double the capacity of a 142 and the fleet is being shuffled. 10 x 195s at six week intervals would mean 47 x 195s in service by the PRM deadline which would be enough to replace the 79 x 142s. That would leave 23 x 144s and (possibly) 20 x 153s to cover until the remaining 14 x 195s and 8 x 769s are in service.

 

[Bertie the bus]

10 x 195s at six week intervals would mean 47 x 195s in service by the PRM deadline which would be enough to replace the 79 x 142s.

Maybe it would but that isn't happening. 7 in the initial batch and reportedly only 4 new diagrams next week.

 

[rick9525]

According to Twitter handle @PacerPreacher the first pacer has been officially retired 142025 due to engine failure. It was due to retire in 6 days anyway. A few others go this week as mentioned already.

 

[krus_aragon]

It expired before it retired. Oh, the retirony...

 

[Mex I can]

I’ve noticed refurbished 150s and 158s on the Sheffield/Hull train through Mexborough recently. The Sheffield/Adwick trains are still all Pacers, but we’ve already been told they are carrying on regardless.

 

[86247]

report on here about 142066 being withdrawn soon saw this on allerton today the only 142 I saw today around the Liverpool area had a bigger surprise when I saw my last northern 156 156485 in old scotrail colours

 

[adrock1976]

I take it that 142015, 079, and 095 are safe still at this moment in time?

Those are my final three Northern 142s I require for haulage, and will have a go on Friday in getting them if they are still around.