Northern Parkeon issues

[BurtonM]

A couple of weeks ago on a Saturday, I spent the night at a friend's house in Rose Hill. On Sunday, when I went to go home to Stalybridge from Marple (Rose Hill's closed on Sundays), the ticket office was closed, so I went to the TVM - a Parkeon issuing new-style tickets.
For whatever reason, the only Railcard discount the TVM offered me was Disabled Child - needless to say I didn't apply this as I was looking for 16-25.
Something is obviously wrong here - does it relate perhaps to the new ticket style?
I informed Northern over Twitter, and they seemed to take something of an interest: come Monday I explained the situation to them in a couple of tweets, later on they tweeted me again asking for some ticket details - to which I sent them a picture of my ticket: after expressing their thanks I have heard nothing further from them.

Anyway, two questions:
-is this a common or an isolated problem?
-if the difference in cost was considerable and I wished to claim a refund from Northern, how easy would it be to do so?

 

[clagmonster]

The appropriate fare for a cheap day single with YP railcard is £2.65. In this case, I would purchase a full fare cheap day single to either Ryder Brow or Hyde Central, depending on the route taken by the desired train, both priced at £2.40, and pay the £0.25 overdistance excess to the guard in line with Condition 3, thus no difference in cost to reclaim.

If a passenger was unaware of this procedure, I would suggest writing to the customer relations department of the relevant TOC, enclosing the tickets and preferably a photograph of the machine showing only a limited range of discounts, though I accept that is not always possible.

 

[BurtonM]

Ah, Condition 3. Fair enough - except on both of the two services I travelled on, there was no guard, it being a Sunday night.
I don't think it's worth writing to Northern for the sake of £1.35 when a stamp costs about half of that.

My question about Parkeons remains unanswered.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Ah, Condition 3. Fair enough - except on both of the two services I travelled on, there was no guard, it being a Sunday night.
I don't think it's worth writing to Northern for the sake of £1.35 when a stamp costs about half of that.

My question about Parkeons remains unanswered.

There would have been a guard, maybe he was just in the back cab? when in doubt knock, unless his/her Avantix was faulty they would have no problem selling you a ticket.

 

[JaJaWa]

The appropriate fare for a cheap day single with YP railcard is £2.65. In this case, I would purchase a full fare cheap day single to either Ryder Brow or Hyde Central, depending on the route taken by the desired train, both priced at £2.40, and pay the £0.25 overdistance excess to the guard in line with Condition 3, thus no difference in cost to reclaim.

Northern do not enforce Condition 3.

There would have been a guard, maybe he was just in the back cab? when in doubt knock, unless his/her Avantix was faulty they would have no problem selling you a ticket.

You are not required to seek out the guard, they should pass through the train...

 

[northernman]

Hi, although I no longer look after Northern's TVM, from the OP's description it sounds like a software issue. I will ask colleagues at Northern to ensure it is investigated, and I'm sorry that you had trouble with the machine.

thanks

Ian

 

[clagmonster]

I don't think it's worth writing to Northern for the sake of £1.35 when a stamp costs about half of that.

You could pick up a comments / complaints form from a staffed station served by them, that would be freepost.

Alternatively, as you have been in communication with their Twitter person, I suppose you could ask them directly how to get the £1.35 back.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Northern do not enforce Condition 3.

Presumably you mean that they don't ching passengers the full undiscounted fare or prosecute when a part fare could have been paid under condition 3. That is reasonable.

However, presumably they would excess / exchange as appropriate when a passenger pays a part fare in accordance with Condition 3. Do I interpret you correctly?

 

[crehld]

It's common to most northern TVMs in my experience. Many will not sell anything other than the full anytime fare (despite off peak fares being available) and rail card discounts are are not universally available. I've written in several times but they don't seem interested. Northernman seems keen to get the issue resolved so I imagine their customer relations people simply don't forward on comments.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Presumably you mean that they don't ching passengers the full undiscounted fare or prosecute when a part fare could have been paid under condition 3. That is reasonable.

However, presumably they would excess / exchange as appropriate when a passenger pays a part fare in accordance with Condition 3. Do I interpret you correctly?

Interesting. When the fare I wanted wasn't available from a northern TVM I obeyed the rules and I purchased a cheaper ticket for part of the way as per condition 3. No guard evidently present on train. Upon approaching staff at my destination to actively offer the balance for my fare I was accused of fare dodging and threatened with prosecution. I was told to provide contact details and ID or the BTP would be summoned. Sound reasonable?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Out of interest is each northern TVM programmed individually rather than as a batch? I find there's a high level of variation among them!

 

[JaJaWa]

Presumably you mean that they don't ching passengers the full undiscounted fare or prosecute when a part fare could have been paid under condition 3. That is reasonable.

However, presumably they would excess / exchange as appropriate when a passenger pays a part fare in accordance with Condition 3. Do I interpret you correctly?

Yes. I believe it's their view that if your ticket is not available, they do not expect you have to purchase an alternative ticket and exchange it (although I would check that with customer relations!). The guard should excess / exchange as appropriate, however they do sometimes appear confused why you have purchased an alternative ticket.

 

[tsr]

Out of interest is each northern TVM programmed individually rather than as a batch? I find there's a high level of variation among them!

I can't speak for Northern or Parkeon TVMs, but some others in use on the National Rail network can host a wide variety of different software versions, even between apparently very similar hardware (though individual machines would not normally host their own version custom-built software). This is most prevalent when a significant new feature is under trial or being rolled out, so I suspect that it is possible that any new ticket format loaded onto the machine in this case may have been part of an update which caused other issues. However, it is impossible for me to have any certainty about this.

 

[Starmill]

I think we need to be clear here. Northern have informed me and other forum members that it's not their policy to deal with Condition 3 in the way that certain other train operators, such as Virgin Trains East Coast, do. That doesn't mean that they couldn't change that without notice, and decide to start applying it such that a passenger must enter into a part exchange in order to be entirely clear of potential prosecution. Such is the nature of the beast, and the unfairness of Condition 3.

Clangmonster - many of Northern's guards will not do the part exchanges, not least because they don't have time, directing people instead to the booking office. There is almost zero chance of a non-Northern booking office carrying out the part exchange.

 

[yorkie]

I agree. Northern have stated in correspondence with numerous people that they don't enforce Condition 3, however they do not make this clear in all their publicity!

Indeed at some stations you could interpret the signage as saying you are not allowed to travel with them as there are no facilities (of course we know that's not the case).

Some stations e.g. Garforth have contradictory messages.

It's a mess.