Northern: paying by card and buy before boarding questions

[mac]

Without knowing the origin station, it's difficult to comment. Can you say where you started your journey?

I got on at Gilberdyke I was lucky I had the cash

 

[bb21]

Gilberdyke does not have ticket-purchasing facilities.

The way I see it is that if the guard announces that card payment cannot be processed as the machine is broke, then everyone can just attempt to pay by card and hence all get a free ride if the other end is not barriered. However if you intended to pay by card, he really should have told you to purchase at the destination/interchange station.

In fact, on numerous occasions I have heard Northern guards on the Yorkshire Coast Line and Hull-Doncaster stoppers announce that the machine was broken and apologise for the inconvenience. So this does seem rather strange.

 

[yorkie]

First got a northern train today 2 adults ticket price £30.60 no problem with that but conductor would not let us pay by card said it had to be cash never had this before is he right and what would have happened if we did not have any?

I can now answer your question. If your destination had a ticket office, you would probably have been advised to buy the tickets there. Alternatively an unpaid fare notice (UFN) could have been completed, for payment to to be taken at a later date. If none of those options were possible, then you would have had no opportunity to pay at all (but may have been able to on your way back - if it was a return).

 

[bb21]

The way I see it is that if the guard announces that card payment cannot be processed as the machine is broke, then everyone can just attempt to pay by card and hence all get a free ride if the other end is not barriered.

Not legal I shall add if there is ticket-purchasing facilities at the destination station.

 

[swj99]

What it basically boils down to is this. They want passengers to pay their fares. So it stands to reason that they should make it possible for this to happen. If they don't make it possible, it's hardly fair to blame the passenger.

I knew an ex jockey once, many years ago. He was one of the most foul mouthed people I've ever met. But he taught me a quite polite phrase which I think fits this situation quite well. I hope the Sweary Mary filter doesn't mess it up too much. The phrase is,

Setting your arse on fire, then standing in your way.

In this instance, the customer / passenger whatever, has had his or her arse set on fire in the form of a requirement that they purchase a ticket. But the failure of the train company to facilitate their purchase of a ticket is the equivalent of standing in their way.

Shame a guaranteed cheque isn't an acceptable form of payment anymore.

What ? Don't you accept luncheon vouchers ?

 

[TUC]

I am left with the feeling that some rail staff expect pasengers to know more about the mechanics of how their bank cards work than the staff know about their own.

 

[island]

Which, needless to say, shouldn't be the case.

The training manuals I have seen (which are for normal retailers, but the principles hold) are simple. If the card is chipped, you insert it in the chip reader. If it's not, swipe it through the reader. The terminal will then tell you what you need to do. Staff should not be declining cards without trying them, unless they are of a card scheme not accepted by the Railway, such as UnionPay.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Which, needless to say, shouldn't be the case.

The training manuals I have seen (which are for normal retailers, but the principles hold) are simple. If the card is chipped, you insert it in the chip reader. If it's not, swipe it through the reader. The terminal will then tell you what you need to do. Staff should not be declining cards without trying them, unless they are of a card scheme not accepted by the Railway, such as UnionPay.

With respect there are certain types of card that will automatically not work hsbc white, natwest blue natwest orange. Santander unembossed or any card with electronic use only and all prepaid type cards and also natwest basic and natwest light blue. experience tells me that and I am certainly not going to waste the passengers or my time trying.

 

[island]

I'll agree with you on cards marked electronic use only.

 

[johnb]

If Northern choose not to use their scheme as above, they can prosecute you under the Railway Byelaws. Fines are normally upward of a thousand pounds, and the offence is a strict liability of not having a valid ticket. If boarding from a station with payment facilities you muust buy before boarding on Northern-they are quite strict about it now.

Upwards of a thousand for an 18(1) offence? I'm, erm, sceptical.

An inspector has no powers to fine a passenger, so the conductor was talking nonsense I'm afraid.

That's a bit pedantic. An RPI has powers to write the passenger up for a fine, and that's a reasonable shorthand.

I know one or two "Regulars" who I will only take cash off, and warn the buffet to do the same.

(Mind you, they know me and usually stay on the platform when they see me. )

Eh? As long as you make them use chip-and-PIN, then even if their card is entirely hooky then the company is safe.

 

[Flamingo]

Eh? As long as you make them use chip-and-PIN, then even if their card is entirely hooky then the company is safe.

They know damn well what we do and don't accept- one of them has attempted to pay me in the past with an M&S gift card!

Cards that certain individuals KNOW will be declined are a scam that they will use.

 

[johnb]

Hahaha, ok, sorry, I get you - as in, if their hooky card were to fail on a naive guard, they'd say "it's your bleedin' machine mate, I'll pay at the office"...

 

[island]

Cards that certain individuals KNOW will be declined are a scam that they will use.

"The chip doesn't work guv, you'll have to swipe it."

 

[michael769]

That's a bit pedantic. An RPI has powers to write the passenger up for a fine, and that's a reasonable shorthand.

No only a court can issue a fine. An RPI cannot even write a passenger up for prosecution in a court - all they can do is submit a witness statement to a prosecutor.

 

[Flamingo]

"The chip doesn't work guv, you'll have to swipe it."

"No mate, I'll have to ring your bank for authorisation"...