Hi All
Received a Court Summons charged under R.O.R.A SEC5.1 due to appear 3rd December. Landed on my lap Saturday 23rd November
Timeline of Events
At about 07:54 on the 27th June I approached my usual TVM to purchase a ticket for a return journey, catching the 07:56 train as I do day in day out.
However the machine had had a software upgrade and wasn't my usual 3 clicks and pay, and also it had some sort of error message flash across saying it couldn't find my journey.
This journey is probably the most common journey made in the mornings in that station so there must of been some sort of error - I had seen people walk away from the machine shaking their heads - but didn't know why. I couldn't purchase my ticket at that machine - there are other facilities available - but they are on the other side of the line and I didn't have the time to use them and catch the required train. So I hop on the train and try to get a ticket off the guard.
I speak to the guard whilst on the train and its moving and ask for a ticket - it comes to pay and the machine doesn't work, we try again and again the machine doesn't work, he gives me the receipt and says "the card reader signal usually drops on this bit of the route as its remote" take this to the ticket desk and get a ticket there. I have a picture of the receipt and it matches back to the date, card etc.
So I get to the destination station and go to the desk and ask for a ticket, at this point the RPO comes over to speak to me and ask me what station im travelling from etc etc and issues me with a penalty fare. I tell him I have tried to make 3 reasonable attempts to pay but have been unable to due to the TVM and the signal black spot on the route (which he admits does exist). Even so he gives me the fare and I walk away I sign it "not agreed" as I don't agree. All I want is a reasonable chance to pay for the fare I wanted, and so far I have been denied that.
I message Northern Customer Services the same day and ask them to check the TVM on the platform 1 side of the line and report back to me any findings. They respond and hour later saying they have checked and "The issue has now been resolved, if this happens again please let us know"
17th July : I appeal the penalty fare via the appeals service website within the 21 days, and have confirmation that the appeal was logged within the 21 days (Remember this bit). Any appeal that is logged does not have to be paid until the review
25th July: I receive a reminder letter from northern dated 22nd July chasing the 20 penalty fare - they have added another £15 on for "admin". I ignore it as as far as I am concerned I have appealed and do not know the outcome of the appeal.
7th August; the appeals service rejects my appeal and says I have to pay.
At this point I do not know if I have to pay the penalty fare of £20, or the £35 penalty plus admin fee, as according to the appeals service website - "Once the appeal is received by AS the notice is placed on hold" and paying the £20 according to Northern wouldn't satisfy the updated outstanding balance. I await for clarification from Northern.
23rd November - I receive the summons.
The papers say I am charged under sec5.1 of rora - do I have to satisfy only one of the criteria under sec 5.1 or all 3 ? as I gave my name and address.
One of the witness statements and the statement of fact say that the appeal was only sent at the same time as the reminder letter dated 22nd of July was sent. Implying that I appealed as a response to the reminder being sent. This is wrong. I appealed a full 5 days prior to the reminder being sent and within the 21 day appeal period allowed. If I had sent the appeal on the 22nd July like they allege, it would of been outside of the 21 day appeal period.
The other witness statement says that "if I state that a tvm is not working a telephone call is made to the supplier to establish if the machine is out of order" It doesn't say weather a phone call was made or not and neither does it disclose the results of any supposed conversation. They are only quoting policy. Not weather that policy was enacted. Whereas I can prove that I asked them to look at the machine and I can prove that they said to me "the problem is now fixed" meaning that there must of been something to fix in the first place - otherwise they would have said there isn't a problem ?!?!.
I am wondering weather I should write a grovel letter to northern and point out the admin errors, meaning I never had fair chance after appeal to pay the £20. Or shall I plead guilty with mitigating circumstances, or ask to be charged under the byelaws as a conviction will have serious effect on my job, or shall I go all out not guilty as I have made reasonable attempts to pay but have been thwarted by inoperative machinery in use by northern ??
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Fast lol.
Received a Court Summons charged under R.O.R.A SEC5.1 due to appear 3rd December. Landed on my lap Saturday 23rd November
Timeline of Events
At about 07:54 on the 27th June I approached my usual TVM to purchase a ticket for a return journey, catching the 07:56 train as I do day in day out.
However the machine had had a software upgrade and wasn't my usual 3 clicks and pay, and also it had some sort of error message flash across saying it couldn't find my journey.
This journey is probably the most common journey made in the mornings in that station so there must of been some sort of error - I had seen people walk away from the machine shaking their heads - but didn't know why. I couldn't purchase my ticket at that machine - there are other facilities available - but they are on the other side of the line and I didn't have the time to use them and catch the required train. So I hop on the train and try to get a ticket off the guard.
I speak to the guard whilst on the train and its moving and ask for a ticket - it comes to pay and the machine doesn't work, we try again and again the machine doesn't work, he gives me the receipt and says "the card reader signal usually drops on this bit of the route as its remote" take this to the ticket desk and get a ticket there. I have a picture of the receipt and it matches back to the date, card etc.
So I get to the destination station and go to the desk and ask for a ticket, at this point the RPO comes over to speak to me and ask me what station im travelling from etc etc and issues me with a penalty fare. I tell him I have tried to make 3 reasonable attempts to pay but have been unable to due to the TVM and the signal black spot on the route (which he admits does exist). Even so he gives me the fare and I walk away I sign it "not agreed" as I don't agree. All I want is a reasonable chance to pay for the fare I wanted, and so far I have been denied that.
I message Northern Customer Services the same day and ask them to check the TVM on the platform 1 side of the line and report back to me any findings. They respond and hour later saying they have checked and "The issue has now been resolved, if this happens again please let us know"
17th July : I appeal the penalty fare via the appeals service website within the 21 days, and have confirmation that the appeal was logged within the 21 days (Remember this bit). Any appeal that is logged does not have to be paid until the review
25th July: I receive a reminder letter from northern dated 22nd July chasing the 20 penalty fare - they have added another £15 on for "admin". I ignore it as as far as I am concerned I have appealed and do not know the outcome of the appeal.
7th August; the appeals service rejects my appeal and says I have to pay.
At this point I do not know if I have to pay the penalty fare of £20, or the £35 penalty plus admin fee, as according to the appeals service website - "Once the appeal is received by AS the notice is placed on hold" and paying the £20 according to Northern wouldn't satisfy the updated outstanding balance. I await for clarification from Northern.
23rd November - I receive the summons.
The papers say I am charged under sec5.1 of rora - do I have to satisfy only one of the criteria under sec 5.1 or all 3 ? as I gave my name and address.
One of the witness statements and the statement of fact say that the appeal was only sent at the same time as the reminder letter dated 22nd of July was sent. Implying that I appealed as a response to the reminder being sent. This is wrong. I appealed a full 5 days prior to the reminder being sent and within the 21 day appeal period allowed. If I had sent the appeal on the 22nd July like they allege, it would of been outside of the 21 day appeal period.
The other witness statement says that "if I state that a tvm is not working a telephone call is made to the supplier to establish if the machine is out of order" It doesn't say weather a phone call was made or not and neither does it disclose the results of any supposed conversation. They are only quoting policy. Not weather that policy was enacted. Whereas I can prove that I asked them to look at the machine and I can prove that they said to me "the problem is now fixed" meaning that there must of been something to fix in the first place - otherwise they would have said there isn't a problem ?!?!.
I am wondering weather I should write a grovel letter to northern and point out the admin errors, meaning I never had fair chance after appeal to pay the £20. Or shall I plead guilty with mitigating circumstances, or ask to be charged under the byelaws as a conviction will have serious effect on my job, or shall I go all out not guilty as I have made reasonable attempts to pay but have been thwarted by inoperative machinery in use by northern ??
Any help would be greatly appreciated. Fast lol.