Northern Rail Huddersfield - Manchester Service : Something has to be done.

[Xenophon PCDGS]

As night follows day, so the Forum goes onto Pacers and Northern

Pacers is to Northern rail stock

AS

Nero is to Rome fire protection

 

[12CSVT]

Referring to the origional post, it would probably make sense for some TPE services to call at one or two of the stations between Huddersfield and Stalybridge to relieve pressure on the Northern services.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I am sure there are many on this forum who will gladly give you the reason why this will not occur.

 

[Nym]

It would be possible but would need a total timetable re-cast. And would then hammer journey times between Leeds, Huddersfeild and Manchester.

When and if the northern hub plans 4 track as much as possible of the route, Network Rail's asperations are for 8tph across the route

4tph Manchester - Huddersfeild - Leeds
2tph Manchester - Stalybridge - Huddersfeild - Dewsbry - Leeds
2tph Manchester - All stations - Huddersfeild

The last two would be from either piccadilly or victoria, the service from Victoria would call at Ashton Under Lyne and from Piccadilly at Guide Bridge.

The interurban service from Manchester - Leeds (stopping at a few stations), is the one that will be able to have additional stops in the peaks, or potentially operate a skip-stop or additional stops at the busyest stations between Huddersfeild and Stalybridge.

 

[northwichcat]

Referring to the origional post, it would probably make sense for some TPE services to call at one or two of the stations between Huddersfield and Stalybridge to relieve pressure on the Northern services.

You mean the same TPE services that have people standing at off-peak times?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

2tph Manchester - All stations - Huddersfeild

The last two would be from either piccadilly or victoria, the service from Victoria would call at Ashton Under Lyne and from Piccadilly at Guide Bridge.

Not quite. Both stoppers would be from Piccadilly. Ashton-under-Lyme would either get a call on a TPE service or/and on an electric service between Liverpool, Victoria and Stalybridge if electrification goes to Stalybridge. Remember not all listed options will be given the go ahead.


- potential for more peak or all day services to Stalybridge from Manchester Victoria and or Manchester Piccadilly
- commuter services to Huddersfield from Manchester Piccadilly in lieu of Manchester Victoria
- a link created between Stalybridge and Guide Bridge
- more frequent trans Pennine trains call at Stalybridge
- inclusion of Ashton–under–Lyne in the transPennine network
- potential for new station and turnback facility at Diggle facilitating additional services
- potential for electrification to Stalybridge allowing electric through working from beyond Manchester Victoria
- increased frequency east of Huddersfield

 

[Nym]

I'm sure I read it in the northern hub plan for (when 4 track comes) to have 6tph Manchester - Leeds via Diggle. With 2tph stopping at Ashton, Staly and Dews and the 4tph through trains not calling anywhere but hudds.

In the world of good sense, if wires do reach Stalybridge then there will be more than the all stations huddersfeild services to there from Piccadilly. Ah well, dreaming again of an efficent and usable network with interchanges on the frindges of large cities *sigh*

IMO, ultimatly it will need 4 track across the pennines. Do-able, but hard. And west of diggle would be two seperate routes. And I'm sure Uppermill would want a station again.

In fantasy land, the 2nd route from Stalybridge to Diggle would be re-opened, with either local stations on one or both of the routes, profereably both as it will offset the disruptions. Diggle station re-opened, with some manner of grade seperation at both junctions. I'd be favouring initally expresses via the new route as it would have higher linespeeds. But eventially expresses would be sent alternate routes with a stopper following it to Diggle where the next express would catch up 20mins later. No TPE services would call anywhere between Manchester and Huddersfeild. Therefore, fast through tracks would be re-instated at Stalybridge.

All four sandledge tunnels re-opened and four track all the way to Huddersfeild, and upto the junction to the east.

Service Patterns:

4tph TP Express, Manchester - Huddersfeild - Leeds
1 or 2tph stoppers over each route to Diggle, potential for some to terminate at Diggle, 2tph continuing on to Huddersfeild.
2tph semi fast, calling Asthton, Stalybridge, Huddersfeild, Dewsbury, Leeds.

Possible extendtions or extra services from Piccadilly to Bradford Interchange via Diggle, Huddersfeild and Brighouse

 

[tbtc]

Any "stoppers" will have to be very carefully scheduled in between the four non stop Manchester - Huddersfield services.

Given the low passenger volumes between some of the "local" stations in between, I can see the argument for "skip stopping" of longer distance services, but its not ideal.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Any "stoppers" will have to be very carefully scheduled in between the four non stop Manchester - Huddersfield services.

Given the low passenger volumes between some of the "local" stations in between, I can see the argument for "skip stopping" of longer distance services, but its not ideal.

Look at all the routes served by First TPE. None of them offer a "local stopping" facility....these routes were NEVER intended to provide such a facility. Services from Manchester Airport to the north-east, via Piccadilly, make very few stops at Stalybridge. It is usually announced after leaving Piccadilly..."and the next stop will be Huddersfield"... at least, every time that I have been travelling to the North-East from Manchester Airport.

There have been comments made on this forum about First TPE trains having the temerity to stop at Chorley.:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

Services from Manchester Airport to the north-east, via Piccadilly, make very few stops at Stalybridge. It is usually announced after leaving Piccidilly..."and the next stop will be Huddersfield"... at least, every time that I have been travelling to the North-East from Manchester Airport.

The standard pattern for Manchester Airport to North East services is: Piccadilly, Huddersfield, ... Though, some peak time services do call at Stalybridge, which for most of the day is served by just the Liverpool-Scarborough service.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The standard pattern for Manchester Airport to North East services is: Piccadilly, Huddersfield, ... Though, some peak time services do call at Stalybridge, which for most of the day is served by just the Liverpool-Scarborough service.

Thank you for your comments. It was in an earlier posting that I saw suggestions that First TPE services could make stops between Stalybridge and Huddersfield and my comments were to say this would NOT be possible.

It does seem strange that it is the Liverpool to Scarborough service is the train chosen to stop at Stalybridge....is there a specific reason why this service was chosen?

 

[DarloRich]

I am sure there are many on this forum who will gladly give you the reason why this will not occur.

coz it would take me longer to get to York! ( or from York)

 

[Invincibles]

Thank you for your comments. It was in an earlier posting that I saw suggestions that First TPE services could make stops between Stalybridge and Huddersfield and my comments were to say this would NOT be possible.

It does seem strange that it is the Liverpool to Scarborough service is the train chosen to stop at Stalybridge....is there a specific reason why this service was chosen?

It connects reasonably well with the stopper from experience, sometimes too well to enjoy a pint in the buffet

 

[northwichcat]

t does seem strange that it is the Liverpool to Scarborough service is the train chosen to stop at Stalybridge....is there a specific reason why this service was chosen?

Stalybridge only used to get an hourly service to Victoria (the service from Huddersfield.) At this point TPE services either called at Stalybridge or Dewsbury so Stalybridge had 2tph to Piccadilly.

Later on an additional stopper got added in between Stalybridge and Victoria so a stop got removed from a TPE service meaning the Hull service neither calls at Stalybridge or Dewsbury. This could be down to the Hull service using the smaller units (2 car 156s and 158s in the past - now mainly 2 car 170s) or it could be down to offering Stalybridge connections to Manchester Oxford Road.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It connects reasonably well with the stopper from experience, sometimes too well to enjoy a pint in the buffet

Yes, it was surprising that the famous buffet on Stalybridge Station did not get a mention in the Northern Hub document.

 

[DarloRich]

it should have done - that is a NICE spot to wait for a train - however i wonder if the OP is able to take advantage of the adult refreshments proffered at such a prestigious location due to his age ( If you are get in for a pint - if not grow a bit of stubble and get a
fake ID!)

 

[Prodigy]

The bar is good a Stalybridge yes, and I like the Station, shame these stations like Mossley and Stalybridge have many unused sections.

 

[tbtc]

Thank you for your comments. It was in an earlier posting that I saw suggestions that First TPE services could make stops between Stalybridge and Huddersfield and my comments were to say this would NOT be possible

One of the biggest wastes of capacity is trains travelling at different speeds over the same stretch of line (look at how London Underground can get a train every couple of minutes, because they all run at the same speed).

The TPE service from Staleybridge to Huddersfield takes just under twenty minutes, whilst the Northern service between the two stations takes half an hour. So, the Northern service can leave Staleybridge a couple of minutes after one TPE service and arrive at Huddersfield a couple of minutes before the next one, but there's little margin for error.

However, that's based on four TPE services an hour over the Huddersfield line. Increase this to six an hour (as is suggested/ planned) and it becomes harder to squeeze in a stopper.

There's a loop at Marsden station westbound, and an eastbound loop just short of the tunnel, which offers some scope for carefully planned overtaking. However, with the TPE services running long distances, there's a lot of scope for them to run late, which has to be accounted for.

Adding in one stop on each of the TPE services would ensure that they were evenly timed and avoid the need for a slow Northern service in between. As I said before, its not ideal, but (short of doubling the entire line) how else do you find the space for six TPE services an hour?

This is the problem on a lot of lines where there's little scope to fit in stops at "local" stations (Chester le Street, Dronfield, Garforth, Alnmouth...) - long distance trains have to stop because there's no space for "local" trains.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It does appear that the future service patterns on the line from Stalybridge to Huddersfield will need to reflect many improvements, but this will all be subject to financial permission being granted to enable these to take place.

It is unfortunate that the current financial situation affecting the country has occurred at the very time when such finance is needed to effect these changes.