Northern Rail Record Performance

[175001]

I'm glad other posters have finally woken up and noticed the continuous and predictable moaning by one particular poster about Northern. I know when just browsing the forum if I see a post about the Mid-Cheshire Line it will usually be followed by a moan.

It's been coming.

 

[Beveridges]

Northern have the most uncomfortable and most bottom spec rolling stock in existence which is what lets the whole operation down. Especially the stock on the mid Cheshire line which is utterly unsuitable. But fortunately they have some top maintenance depots with very good staff who keep the aging fleet running extremely reliably, hence better performance figures than even TPE.

 

[northwichcat]

You have pointed out a few times that Virgin get priority (over Northern) when it comes to paths over that infrastructure, e.g. Stockport viaduct, so I don't know why problems there would harm Virgin more than Northern?

Many of Virgin's problems are due to issues on the southern section of the WCML, which is why LM have very poor PPM on Euston services compared to the Snow Hill Lines (Virgin have the priority over LM.)

When there is an incident on the Cheadle Hulme-Stoke line (there was a suicide recently) it affects twice the number of Virgin services as Northern services.

I'm glad other posters have finally woken up and noticed the continuous and predictable moaning by one particular poster about Northern. I know when just browsing the forum if I see a post about the Mid-Cheshire Line it will usually be followed by a moan.

How many other lines have been seen a downgrade on Monday-Saturday services since Northern took over? The Mid-Cheshire line now has inferior rolling stock to what it had under FNW without the capacity increase that other lines like Calder Vale and the Southport line have seen alongside downgrades. OK it's not Northern's fault that 175s are no longer used but it was their decision to stop using 158s on the line and to increase the number of Pacer booked workings. There's also less peak time services to/from Manchester (not Northern's fault but it is a downgrade.) And the only strengthened service the line has (which needs the extra capacity) was achieved by withdrawing another service on the line.

Northern have improved punctuality and reliability under what it was under FNW when rail unions frequently called strikes or overtime bans

No ...you created a post so as to highlight any areas which Northern are not up to the average.

Again Moonshot you're showing you selectively read things. You had a rant in another thread deleted by moderators where you said one of my posts was a moan about Northern when it was the opposite and other users started arguing with you.

How does the below comment not say Northern are improving?

13 Northern routes (out of 23) have annual averages under 90% while only 6 have averages under 90% in the latest reporting period

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

• to quote a 75% PPM on your local line, which is clearly not the average figure
  

The issue is full statistical analysis is only provided to the stakeholders and what I hear is only what the stakeholders chose to pass on. I had to ask for clarification on where the 75% figure had come from after seeing the TfGM report showing the average PPM has been much higher than that.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

As someone who works that line on a regular basis I find that we are rarely late and easily the majority of Passengers are satisfied with the service they get. Yes rolling stock isn't great quality BUT that is the same through the majority of the North West. We no longer have 5 Request stops on the Mid Cheshire line and the stations are very well maintained (a lot of the praise for that should go to John Oates and the MCRUA). For the higher platforms Harrington humps are in use as well. I really do not know what some people want when Northern's hands are tied on so many issues. They do a damn good job and I am proud to be a guard on this Network!

 

[Train jaune]

Well said ANorthernGuard, we all want something better than what we've got, but lets remember the dedication of people, staff and volunteers, who work hard to make the best of what they've got

 

[northwichcat]

We no longer have 5 Request stops on the Mid Cheshire line and the stations are very well maintained (a lot of the praise for that should go to John Oates and the MCRUA).

The problem was until recently due to removing the request stops and higher loadings trains were missing their booked paths so journey times had extra padding added in. There's now even more criticism about how slow journeys to/from Manchester are. MCRUA are proposing the solution will be to have 1 semi-fast Manchester-Chester and 1 stopping Manchester-Chester service per hour, opposed the the Northern Hub proposal of introducing a Greenbank-Stockport semi-fast alongside the existing stopper. I hope that proposal does go ahead but obviously the reasons it can't at the moment are a lack of diesel stock and a lack of paths in the Slade La junction area.

the majority of Passengers are satisfied with the service they get.

Do you actually ask the passengers about it? I think/hope the majority of passengers realise it was the train crew who chose which train was put on a particular service and that the crews don't want the service to be delayed but aren't necessarily happy about it just because they don't comment on it.

One guard*once said trains starting/terminating at Stockport isn't an issue as there's loads of trains between Stockport and Manchester, which doesn't seem to be the view of most passengers.

With mentioning John Oates I assume you've spoken to him on numerous occasions as he normally sits near the back of the train and has a chat with the guard if the opportunity is available.

* who I know isn't you because you've previously said you've worked as a guard for a number of years and the one who said that was working in a different role a few years ago.

 

[northernchris]

How many other lines have been seen a downgrade on Monday-Saturday services since Northern took over? The Mid-Cheshire line now has inferior rolling stock to what it had under FNW without the capacity increase that other lines like Calder Vale and the Southport line have seen alongside downgrades. OK it's not Northern's fault that 175s are no longer used but it was their decision to stop using 158s on the line and to increase the number of Pacer booked workings.

So the quality of the rolling stock has decreased under Northern, but punctuality has improved. Surely that's something which should be welcomed particularly as the network has become more congested in recent years.

What would you like Northern to do given the circumstances? Much of their network experiences capacity issues, even at off peak times on some routes, so they don't have the resources available to strengthen / add services without penalising other routes. Moving the 158s to Neville Hill (in exchange for 156s) was to improve maintenance by having fleets allocated to one depot (the 142s seem to be the exception) and this probably explains why Northern have been able to record their highest ever performance figures

 

[Moonshot]

Just to re iterate....Northern Rail have just posted their highest ever performance figures on a network which is increasingly crowded with record numbers of passengers. The rolling stock maybe old, but the staff (of which I m a member of ) really do put in the effort to get passengers from a to b, which is what rail travel is all about. At the end of the day , the only opinion that matters is the passengers.....and I dont see many complaints.

 

[northwichcat]

Just to re iterate....Northern Rail have just posted their highest ever performance figures on a network which is increasingly crowded with record numbers of passengers. The rolling stock maybe old, but the staff (of which I m a member of ) really do put in the effort to get passengers from a to b, which is what rail travel is all about. At the end of the day , the only opinion that matters is the passengers.....and I dont see many complaints.

The correct procedure for making a complaint is to send it to the Customer Relations Team. Unless you work in that department you don't see a lot of complaints.

There are also a number of complaints posted publicly on Twitter but considering the size of the Northern operations there aren't that many complaints posted - especially compared to Metrolink. Oh and if you want to tell someone to find something better to do with their time (as you told me the other day) why not say it to the person who runs this Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/metrolinkFAILS who must a significant amount of time each day re-tweeting complaints about Metrolink.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What would you like Northern to do given the circumstances? Much of their network experiences capacity issues, even at off peak times on some routes, so they don't have the resources available to strengthen / add services without penalising other routes. Moving the 158s to Neville Hill (in exchange for 156s) was to improve maintenance by having fleets allocated to one depot (the 142s seem to be the exception) and this probably explains why Northern have been able to record their highest ever performance figures

Northern have a similar number of 156s and 158s but the 156s are split across 2 depots whereas the 158s are all based at Neville Hill. Also the 158s seem to predominately stay on Yorkshire routes while a Heaton based 142 can finish up on a Penistone Line service or a Newton Heath based 150 can finish up on a Sheffield-Lincoln service.

 

[Moonshot]

The correct procedure for making a complaint is to send it to the Customer Relations Team. Unless you work in that department you don't see a lot of complaints.

There are also a number of complaints posted publicly on Twitter but considering the size of the Northern operations there aren't that many complaints posted - especially compared to Metrolink. Oh and if you want to tell someone to find something better to do with their time (as you told me the other day) why not say it to the person who runs this Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/metrolinkFAILS who must a significant amount of time each day re-tweeting complaints about Metrolink.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Northern have a similar number of 156s and 158s but the 156s are split across 2 depots whereas the 158s are all based at Neville Hill. Also the 158s seem to predominately stay on Yorkshire routes while a Heaton based 142 can finish up on a Penistone Line service or a Newton Heath based 150 can finish up on a Sheffield-Lincoln service.

Yes I did......you seem to spend a huge amount of time on this forum posting nothing but anti Northern Rail nonsense. So I ll make a suggestion here.......why dont you become a station adopter, and actually contribute something to this industry? By doing that , you will also get free travel on Northern Rail......seems a good idea to me instead of being sat in front of a PC all day.

For those of you who are unaware, Northern Rail run a station adopters scheme....obviously voluntary but the idea is to keep your chosen station in a nice condition ( which often includes planting ). In return , you get a travel pass for Northerns network.

 

[Bob Ames]

Yesterday I had my first Northern bash in a year and I must say I was impressed with the booked traction (144) and the staff (eye-contact is a must when checking tickets - VT please take note!). It's a shame the service is let down by the line (Lancaster-Leeds) - a whole lot of clatter and bounce, not something a WCMLer like myself is used to.

 

[Tomnick]

I posted the below in another thread recently, but I've copied it here as it seems relevant. My experience is fairly limited, and almost all over on the East side, but I really don't see what all the anti-Northern fuss is about!

I've never had a problem whenever I've used Northern - any issues have always been sorted without too much fuss, and they've always got me to where I've needed to go without much delay. The staff, with the inevitable handful of exceptions, seem a really cheerful bunch whenever I've encountered them, doing their best in often difficult circumstances.

 

[Beveridges]

He does have some valid points though. The quality of rolling stock is appalling apart from the very few 156s. The journey times on the mid cheshire line are very, very slow due to all servcies being all-stops.

 

[BravoGolfMike]

On a personal level, it seems that the introduction of GSMR across the North has speeded things up no end. From reminding the signaller of your presence immediately when detained (or being messaged to contact the signaller), to saving the hassle and time involved in securing the cab and using an SPT, the new system is streets ahead of what went before. I wonder if it is something that is beginning to filter through into Northern's statistics what with the large number of trains which are detained every day.

 

[Tomnick]

Not specific to Northern, but GSM-R is certainly an enormous help when things are going a little bit wrong - as you suggest, it means we can get drivers talked past signals (for example) much more quickly, so the delays don't multiply quite so quickly if you've got a string of trains to get past!

 

[northernchris]

Northern have a similar number of 156s and 158s but the 156s are split across 2 depots whereas the 158s are all based at Neville Hill. Also the 158s seem to predominately stay on Yorkshire routes while a Heaton based 142 can finish up on a Penistone Line service or a Newton Heath based 150 can finish up on a Sheffield-Lincoln service.

There are numerous diagrams around Yorkshire for 142s, the majority of which are Heaton units although Newton Heath examples are fairly common too. When the stock reshuffle occurred (which I think was 2007?) Yorkshire Forward had provided funding for 6 158s, plus they were the 10 Metro sponsored units so it seemed only right 158s were allocated to Neville Hill. Although I don't see what any of this has to do with Northern's performance

 

[northwichcat]

There are numerous diagrams around Yorkshire for 142s, the majority of which are Heaton units although Newton Heath examples are fairly common too. When the stock reshuffle occurred (which I think was 2007?) Yorkshire Forward had provided funding for 6 158s, plus they were the 10 Metro sponsored units so it seemed only right 158s were allocated to Neville Hill. Although I don't see what any of this has to do with Northern's performance

While 6 of the additional 158s were secured using Merseytravel funding, so there isn't really a logical reason why the 156s couldn't have all been based at one depot with the 158s being split between depots opposed to the other way around.

It was you who said the fleet consistency at depots was what had improved punctuality from what it was under FNW.

In the last few years of the FNW franchise they used 101s, 142s, 150s, 153s, 156s, 158s, 175s and loco-hauled sets. Even without rearranging the fleet Northern were 3 less traction types on the west side down on what FNW used. Northern have never had a very elderly type of train (like the 101s) or a brand new design of train which has caused initial teething problems (like the 175s.)

 

[1D53]

As suggested the specialising of certain fleets at certain depots has improved fleet performance hugely.