Northern Rail Sheffield.

[Firefighter349]

Just this minute had an email thanking me for my application but they are now withdrawing ALL external applicants out of the sift due to 'recruitment requirements"
Couldn't have put a bigger downer on my day!!

 

[beefstu]

I had the same email.

 

[peamix]

Me too..

 

[hughavinalaf]

For what role? conductor?

 

[Doobyjangler]

Trainee driver fella

 

[MuttleyBOT]

Northern have a habit of doing this unfortunately

 

[garageflower]

Same, gutted as it stopped me from applying for another role due to this pending

 

[Darandio]

Northern have a habit of doing this unfortunately

They certainly do, 'Change In Requirements', 'Recruitment Requirements' etc etc.

 

[47802]

**** poor really but unfortunately in the current climate they can treat people like dirt, not that's any different to other employers.

I've got an application with them at the moment not for Sheffield obviously see if I get anywhere or will that get pulled as well.

 

[darren111]

Had same email too, but hey lets just keep opening new doors.

 

[455driver]

Probably because they have enough decent internal candidates to fill the trainee driver posts.

If that is the case then maybe there is a clue there!

 

[Clip]

**** poor really but unfortunately in the current climate they can treat people like dirt, not that's any different to other employers.

I've got an application with them at the moment not for Sheffield obviously see if I get anywhere or will that get pulled as well.

With a rotten attitude like that you dont seem to deserve a role on the railway :roll:

 

[MuttleyBOT]

Probably because they have enough decent internal candidates to fill the trainee driver posts.

If that is the case then maybe there is a clue there!

And if that's the case then it's only right and proper to promote internally. But a good HR Dept (Manager) should have been in liaison with its operational managers to ascertain that information before advertising externally. An internal campaign would have highlighted the interest and saved everyone a lot of time, especially the no doubt already overworked HR admin.

 

[red2005]

Looking at it from a view of an internal who witnessed companies advertising externally for years therefore internals not having a chance, I actually think it's quite refreshing to see internal applicants getting an opportunity!!

That's not to say they are any better or worse than external applicants but it's nice to see!

Those externals who don't seem happy just remember there was a time where there was no chance of being a driver unless you we're already employed within the railway!....I mean come on you didn't expect to get a drivers job without the odd bump in the road did you!?? This is the most active I've seen companies in terms of recruiting drivers in a long time!! Just keep trying! If you want it enough this won't matter!

 

[47802]

Looking at it from a view of an internal who witnessed companies advertising externally for years therefore internals not having a chance, I actually think it's quite refreshing to see internal applicants getting an opportunity!!

That's not to say they are any better or worse than external applicants but it's nice to see!

Those externals who don't seem happy just remember there was a time where there was no chance of being a driver unless you we're already employed within the railway!....I mean come on you didn't expect to get a drivers job without the odd bump in the road did you!?? This is the most active I've seen companies in terms of recruiting drivers in a long time!! Just keep trying! If you want it enough this won't matter!

Yes but this wastes a lot of people time and disappoints a lot of people, non railway companies I have worked for in the past, usually advertise internally first and then only advertise externally if there aren't enough suitable internal candidates, and to me that's how it should be done.

 

[red2005]

maybe it does seem like a waste of time and I've had the same thing happen to me in the past when I was applying but if people want the job that badly should they let something like this bother them???

I'm not sure if you are railway staff already mate but what you'll realise if you are not is that the railway takes great pride in being different to other industries!......trust me mate there are a lot of top top applicants internally and if they did it the way you've mentioned people who are external and are hoping to go straight to a driver grade would have their chances cut in a big way as they'd 9 times out of 10 have no problems filling the posts with internals...and by the sound of it from the first post on here they have done just what you think should happen only they have felt there is no need to recruit externally as they've found suitable internal applicants which I think is great as people who have cut their teeth in other grades already and want to push on should have the right to progress their careers in ways they see fit too.

yes there will be disappointment and it gets frustrating (I had 7 years of it) but when you are applying for a role where over 100 people go for 1 position people will need to expect to be disappointed from time to time! and any industry not just the railway has the right to withdraw positions when they see fit.....it's not really treating people like dirt it's just a change in circumstance!

perseverance is the key in my eyes!....if you give up at the first bump in the road do you actually deserve to get such a fantastic job? they are trying to get the right people through the door remember as they will be spending thousands on training them!.......is complaining over a withdrawn position or an application form that took up a couple of hours of you're time going to help you? is it going to change things?........no it isn't!......don't complain!.....fill it in again!......apply again!.......i'm sure when you are eventually successful the elation you feel will outweigh any disappointment you've felt in the past!

 

[johnsonr380]

maybe it does seem like a waste of time and I've had the same thing happen to me in the past when I was applying but if people want the job that badly should they let something like this bother them???

I'm not sure if you are railway staff already mate but what you'll realise if you are not is that the railway takes great pride in being different to other industries!......trust me mate there are a lot of top top applicants internally and if they did it the way you've mentioned people who are external and are hoping to go straight to a driver grade would have their chances cut in a big way as they'd 9 times out of 10 have no problems filling the posts with internals...and by the sound of it from the first post on here they have done just what you think should happen only they have felt there is no need to recruit externally as they've found suitable internal applicants which I think is great as people who have cut their teeth in other grades already and want to push on should have the right to progress their careers in ways they see fit too.

yes there will be disappointment and it gets frustrating (I had 7 years of it) but when you are applying for a role where over 100 people go for 1 position people will need to expect to be disappointed from time to time! and any industry not just the railway has the right to withdraw positions when they see fit.....it's not really treating people like dirt it's just a change in circumstance!

perseverance is the key in my eyes!....if you give up at the first bump in the road do you actually deserve to get such a fantastic job? they are trying to get the right people through the door remember as they will be spending thousands on training them!.......is complaining over a withdrawn position or an application form that took up a couple of hours of you're time going to help you? is it going to change things?........no it isn't!......don't complain!.....fill it in again!......apply again!.......i'm sure when you are eventually successful the elation you feel will outweigh any disappointment you've felt in the past!

Perseverance and positivity is key. It'll be a big set back to get the bad news email. I suppose there is not much you can do in that situation but dust ourselves down and plan the next move. They do have our future in their hands but I won't be venting my frustration on am open forum.

Sitting in a pool I see the argument for both sides.

 

[red2005]

Perseverance and positivity is key. It'll be a big set back to get the bad news email. I suppose there is not much you can do in that situation but dust ourselves down and plan the next move. They do have our future in their hands but I won't be venting my frustration on am open forum.

Sitting in a pool I see the argument for both sides.

exactly mate! unfortunately for the guys who have received this email it's a very popular position that hundreds go for!.......I just think it's one of those positions where when it comes to applying disappointment goes hand in hand for many reasons!.......there's been occasions where people have been given an actual start date with companies only for the course to be cancelled for whatever reason!

however as I say it's a fantastic job within a fantastic industry!....don't let this "get you're goat" .....an application form is a couple of hours out of your life for what could be a fantastic career......if you need to fill it in another 10 times...do it!

 

[47802]

maybe it does seem like a waste of time and I've had the same thing happen to me in the past when I was applying but if people want the job that badly should they let something like this bother them???

I'm not sure if you are railway staff already mate but what you'll realise if you are not is that the railway takes great pride in being different to other industries!......trust me mate there are a lot of top top applicants internally and if they did it the way you've mentioned people who are external and are hoping to go straight to a driver grade would have their chances cut in a big way as they'd 9 times out of 10 have no problems filling the posts with internals...and by the sound of it from the first post on here they have done just what you think should happen only they have felt there is no need to recruit externally as they've found suitable internal applicants which I think is great as people who have cut their teeth in other grades already and want to push on should have the right to progress their careers in ways they see fit too.

yes there will be disappointment and it gets frustrating (I had 7 years of it) but when you are applying for a role where over 100 people go for 1 position people will need to expect to be disappointed from time to time! and any industry not just the railway has the right to withdraw positions when they see fit.....it's not really treating people like dirt it's just a change in circumstance!

perseverance is the key in my eyes!....if you give up at the first bump in the road do you actually deserve to get such a fantastic job? they are trying to get the right people through the door remember as they will be spending thousands on training them!.......is complaining over a withdrawn position or an application form that took up a couple of hours of you're time going to help you? is it going to change things?........no it isn't!......don't complain!.....fill it in again!......apply again!.......i'm sure when you are eventually successful the elation you feel will outweigh any disappointment you've felt in the past!

Well that's one way of looking at personally I think its a load of Tosh, Personally I haven't got years to spend applying for the jobs in the rail industry not only with a slim chance of getting through the stages etc, but then for the job to be pulled.

The current application I have running will be my last.

 

[Nevillehill]

Well that's one way of looking at personally I think its a load of Tosh, Personally I haven't got years to spend applying for the jobs in the rail industry not only with a slim chance of getting through the stages etc, but then for the job to be pulled.

The current application I have running will be my last.

I notice you have a train number as your username, the railway don't employ trainspotters.

 

[red2005]

Well that's one way of looking at personally I think its a load of Tosh, Personally I haven't got years to spend applying for the jobs in the rail industry not only with a slim chance of getting through the stages etc, but then for the job to be pulled.

The current application I have running will be my last.

well there you go then!...if you don't get it with you're current application at least it will go to someone who is willing to do what it takes and go the extra mile to get the position and not let a little inconvenience put them off! don't take this personally but the way your attitude comes across you do make it sound like they owe you a position!

bit of a defeatist attitude if you ask me but each to their own I suppose!

 

[455driver]

I notice you have a train number as your username, the railway don't employ trainspotters.

So why am I a driver then?
They employ far more than most people think because having an interest in what you do can be a good thing, normally.

 

[47802]

I notice you have a train number as your username, the railway don't employ trainspotters.

Well some people say that and possibly it is true to some degree although as 455driver says I think it helps if you have an interest in what you do.

When I was younger I deliberately didn't look for a career in the Railways because it was my hobby and wanted to keep it separate, but now I don't have the same level of interest in Modern Units anyway so that's squared it.

And no I don't think the world owes me a living, although I am a bit ****ed off about the amount of effort and work I put in my last Job only to be outsourced and then made redundant in my early 50's and despite what the age discrimination laws might say these days that not a good age to be looking for a Job and nor can I afford to retire, and equally can I wait around for months to go through a selection process for a job which may get pulled or even if I am successful then sit in a talent pool without actual certainty you will get a job. Frankly I think you have to be realistic about things when you get to my age so if I don't get anywhere Railway Job wise then maybe its not for me, I've certainly never been a fan of this desperate want it mentality at all costs.

 

[red2005]

Well some people say that and possibly it is true to some degree although as 455driver says I think it helps if you have an interest in what you do.

When I was younger I deliberately didn't look for a career in the Railways because it was my hobby and wanted to keep it separate, but now I don't have the same level of interest in Modern Units anyway so that's squared it.

And no I don't think the world owes me a living, although I am a bit ****ed off about the amount of effort and work I put in my last Job only to be outsourced and then made redundant in my early 50's and despite what the age discrimination laws might say these days that not a good age to be looking for a Job and nor can I afford to retire, and equally can I wait around for months to go through a selection process for a job which may get pulled or even if I am successful then sit in a talent pool without actual certainty you will get a job. Frankly I think you have to be realistic about things when you get to my age so if I don't get anywhere Railway Job wise then maybe its not for me, I've certainly never been a fan of this desperate want it mentality at all costs.

ah ah ah now I never once said anything about the world owing you a living if you are 50 odd years of age i'm sure you've worked hard enough!

just so you know matey one of the lads currently on our course celebrated his 50th in the hotel with us 2 weeks ago!...yes looking at it business wise if you've got a 30 year old and a 50 year old going for the same job you may get longer out of the 30 year old but one thing I know about the railway is that it's not about age it's about getting the right people for the job through the door! if you are good enough and the right person in their eyes for the job then it's yours

but the thing is mate surely you knew about the vast numbers that apply and talent pools before you applied didn't you?....well I appreciate it that everyone is different but look at it logically......if you we're the interviewer and you had one person desperate for the job and another who wasn't bothered either way and could take it or leave it.....who would you employ?....that has nothing to do with age etc that's just down to the individuals attitude towards the job/industry.

I do sympathise with your position it really can't be nice but what I would say to you is don't let this put you off as trust me you will regret it!......and if you are doing applications on line and you fear this happening again copy and paste the things you are putting in your application into a separate document! if you believe what you are writing is tip top for the job keep it on file for whatever application's you may fill in in the future!....and don't rely on one application! very few people get in first time as I say it took me 7 years!...be flexible (if possible) and apply wherever you can it enhances your chances and may get you in the grade quicker!

 

[455driver]

just so you know matey one of the lads currently on our course celebrated his 50th in the hotel with us 2 weeks ago!...yes looking at it business wise if you've got a 30 year old and a 50 year old going for the same job you may get longer out of the 30 year old but one thing I know about the railway is that it's not about age it's about getting the right people for the job through the door! if you are good enough and the right person in their eyes for the job then it's yours

But what are the chances of the 30 year old staying a few years to get some experience and then wanting to go join a 'premier' TOC doing long distance stuff compared to the 50 year old doing it?
The TOC that trains them could (probably would) get more time out of the 50 year old than they will out of the 30 year old!

 

[red2005]

But what are the chances of the 30 year old staying a few years to get some experience and then wanting to go join a 'premier' TOC doing long distance stuff compared to the 50 year old doing it?
The TOC that trains them could (probably would) get more time out of the 50 year old than they will out of the 30 year old!

That's a bit of a general assumption!......do 50 year olds not have ambition as well!?.......just because someone is 30 doesn't mean they are not settled with a family and just being happy to get the job without worrying about future transfers to the likes of VT! Most of the younger guys at our place are just happy to be in the role! They know what the routes are know they are never far away from home should the proverbial hit the fan and there's actually a little bit of stopping and starting involved instead of passing greens all day!

Not all younger drivers are in the job for the prestige!....they are happy to be just driving trains for a living no matter what slogan is printed on the side of it! Like I said earlier age has very little to do with things! It's about the individual!

 

[455driver]

Its not just a question of ambition though, but the balance of probability is that the younger driver is more likely to want to move up, there will always be expections to every rule on that one though.
plus of course the 'premier' TOC would prefer to take on the younger driver as they will get more out of them, probably!

Edit-
I think we are actually saying nearly the same thing but from different perspectives.

 

[MuttleyBOT]

But what are the chances of the 30 year old staying a few years to get some experience and then wanting to go join a 'premier' TOC doing long distance stuff compared to the 50 year old doing it?
The TOC that trains them could (probably would) get more time out of the 50 year old than they will out of the 30 year old!

Totally agree with this comment - from a business point of view employing an 'older' person might just give a much better return on the investment put in.

 

[red2005]

Its not just a question of ambition though, but the balance of probability is that the younger driver is more likely to want to move up, there will always be expections to every rule on that one though.
plus of course the 'premier' TOC would prefer to take on the younger driver as they will get more out of them, probably!

Edit-
I think we are actually saying nearly the same thing but from different perspectives.

oh yes and I did say that in a previous post!...from a purely business standpoint if you are gonna make an investment in something you may as well make it something that's long term (I assume that's why the armed forces have age cut off points for certain grades) however what I actually meant was within the railway that isn't that important!.

they seem to have an opinion that it's more about getting the right person through the door!...that's why I was talking about not letting things like inconvenience, application forms and your age get in the way of applying again! just because you are fifty odd doesn't mean your heading for a wooden box!.....it could also mean that you have life experience, maturity, knowledge and a strong work ethic.....all of which the railway love!

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Yes but this wastes a lot of people time and disappoints a lot of people, non railway companies I have worked for in the past, usually advertise internally first and then only advertise externally if there aren't enough suitable internal candidates, and to me that's how it should be done.

there's a lot of debate over this , some sensible some less so

promoting from within has value however it also leads to stale, groupthink ridden organisations full of people inculated into a particular mindset ...