Northern service to Scotland?

Saperstein

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Hi,

I’m sure I remember reading a while back about a Northern service that ran with Scotrail stock/Northern crew (or some variation thereof) from Newcastle to Glasgow via Carlisle.

Did such a service ever exist or does it now?

Couldn't find anything on the search engine (no pun intended!)

Thanks

Saperstein.
 
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30907

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Not sure of the current arrangements or crewing (though Table 216 GBTT still shows 3 SR services through to Newcastle, and 2 of them appear on T48), but the through workings are very long standing, and included a pair of Newcastle-Stranraer workings for many years. Try Googling images of Scotrail 156 Newcastle for example.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Hi,

I’m sure I remember reading a while back about a Northern service that ran with Scotrail stock/Northern crew (or some variation thereof) from Newcastle to Glasgow via Carlisle.

Did such a service ever exist or does it now?

Couldn't find anything on the search engine (no pun intended!)

Thanks

Saperstein.
I know there used to be a Northern Glasgow to Leeds once a day via the settle and Carlisle Line. From 1999 until around 2003/04. Not sure about Glasgow to Newcastle via Carlisle.
 

gray1404

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There are no Northern services to or from Scotland.

Services between Glasgow Central and Newcastle used to be operated by Scotrail as far as Carlisle and by Northern thereafter. It would be crewed by staff of the according TOC between those stations. However, the stock used could be from either TOC.

Currently, there is a service from Glasgow Central to Newcastle in the timetable. When I check this on BRtimes, it is shown as operated by Scotrail to Carlisle and Northern thereafter.
 

Glenn1969

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There is a 1613 train from Glasgow to Newcastle via Carlisle and 2 morning trains from Dumfries to Newcastle. Nothing in the opposite direction seemingly
 

Peter A

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There is a 1613 train from Glasgow to Newcastle via Carlisle and 2 morning trains from Dumfries to Newcastle. Nothing in the opposite direction seemingly
There did indeed used to be a morning service, the 06:20 from Newcastle to Glasgow. This service still runs as the 06:20 Newcastle to Carlisle which runs on to the 08:08 Carlisle to Glasgow using the same Scotrail unit - so the through service does still operate but is no longer advertised as such.

One of the morning Dumfries services also uses a Scotrail unit which is then used on the 12:39 Newcastle to Carlisle, 14:31 Carlisle to Morpeth, and 16:55 Morpeth to Carlisle which then operates the 19:20 Carlisle to Glasgow. I believe the other Dumfries service uses a northern unit but can't say for certain.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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Was it ran as far as Glasgow Central by Northern, or did Scotrail take it over from Carlisle?
I'm not sure but it may have been a joint service by Arriva Trains Northern and ScotRail (then ran by National Express) someone may have to clarify. Scotrail may well have taken over from Carlisle
 

snookertam

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The old Leeds to Glasgow Central service was northern throughout. It was supposed to by a 158 which no ScotRail crew from Glasgow Central, Ayr or Dumfries would have knowledge of. It also ran via Lockerbie which again ScotRail crews had no knowledge of.

As others have stated the existing Glasgow Central/Newcastle services are officially ScotRail services as far as Carlisle and Northern from there to Newcastle. ScotRail and Northern have arrangements to use each others units for various services, and Northern crews also sometimes work services between Carlisle/Dumfries. There will be certain services down there that you wouldn't know was operated by ScotRail unless the traincrew told you.

During times of disruption each operators units have become 'lost' on occasion. A Northern Unit once made it to Glasgow Central before and ended up having to operate an East Kilbride service before being returned to Dumfries.
 

route101

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The old Leeds to Glasgow Central service was northern throughout. It was supposed to by a 158 which no ScotRail crew from Glasgow Central, Ayr or Dumfries would have knowledge of. It also ran via Lockerbie which again ScotRail crews had no knowledge of.

As others have stated the existing Glasgow Central/Newcastle services are officially ScotRail services as far as Carlisle and Northern from there to Newcastle. ScotRail and Northern have arrangements to use each others units for various services, and Northern crews also sometimes work services between Carlisle/Dumfries. There will be certain services down there that you wouldn't know was operated by ScotRail unless the traincrew told you.

During times of disruption each operators units have become 'lost' on occasion. A Northern Unit once made it to Glasgow Central before and ended up having to operate an East Kilbride service before being returned to Dumfries.
Wish that Leeds to Glasgow would still exist!

Didnt realise it was 3 years ago that the Northern 156 went to EK , im sure it was later.
 

BigCj34

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Wish that Leeds to Glasgow would still exist!

Didnt realise it was 3 years ago that the Northern 156 went to EK , im sure it was later.
It's be interesting to see how long it took. If searching daily itineraries there are only a couple of occasions where it is quicker to go from Glasgow to Leeds via the S&C. Otherwise it's via Edinburgh or Bentham.
 

route101

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It's be interesting to see how long it took. If searching daily itineraries there are only a couple of occasions where it is quicker to go from Glasgow to Leeds via the S&C. Otherwise it's via Edinburgh or Bentham.
Yeah , expensive to go via the ECML!
 

tbtc

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The old Leeds to Glasgow Central service was northern throughout. It was supposed to by a 158 which no ScotRail crew from Glasgow Central, Ayr or Dumfries would have knowledge of. It also ran via Lockerbie which again ScotRail crews had no knowledge of.

As others have stated the existing Glasgow Central/Newcastle services are officially ScotRail services as far as Carlisle and Northern from there to Newcastle. ScotRail and Northern have arrangements to use each others units for various services, and Northern crews also sometimes work services between Carlisle/Dumfries. There will be certain services down there that you wouldn't know was operated by ScotRail unless the traincrew told you.

During times of disruption each operators units have become 'lost' on occasion. A Northern Unit once made it to Glasgow Central before and ended up having to operate an East Kilbride service before being returned to Dumfries.
I certainly saw 156s on it (but this was in the era before digital cameras, so I can't say how often that would have been as a percentage of times)

The WCML north of Carlisle was a lot quieter back then of course (bi-hourly services from Euston, Manchester and Birmingham, whereas all are pretty much hourly nowadays)

I wasn't aware of a Northern unit making it to EK, but that's good to hear - at least both TOCs have the same DMUs at the moment so the through working is viable - what it'll be like if one gets something more modern is another story though
 

Peter Bonner

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I certainly saw 156s on it (but this was in the era before digital cameras, so I can't say how often that would have been as a percentage of times)

The WCML north of Carlisle was a lot quieter back then of course (bi-hourly services from Euston, Manchester and Birmingham, whereas all are pretty much hourly nowadays)

I wasn't aware of a Northern unit making it to EK, but that's good to hear - at least both TOCs have the same DMUs at the moment so the through working is viable - what it'll be like if one gets something more modern is another story though
Didnt Northern units( or whatever its name then) sometimes go to St Rollox works? Ok not a passenger service but in the area. They also went to Kilmarnock for repair?? Not sure of these points. Can anyone enlighten me?
 

Iskra

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I know there used to be a Northern Glasgow to Leeds once a day via the settle and Carlisle Line. From 1999 until around 2003/04. Not sure about Glasgow to Newcastle via Carlisle.
I don’t think it went on for that many years. I think it only lasted around a year, ending in 2003/4. It was a great service for me and its legacy lives on with the daily S&C express services, which are still well patronised with Glasgow customers.
 

70014IronDuke

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I don’t think it went on for that many years. I think it only lasted around a year, ending in 2003/4. It was a great service for me and its legacy lives on with the daily S&C express services, which are still well patronised with Glasgow customers.
A bit of an exaggeration, I'm afraid.
For the past year or so, on Weekdays there is only one service, in the up, 1E65 13.40 ex-Carlisle.

In the down, the 09.19 1M53 ex-Leeds retains a class 1 headcode, but stops at most of the 10 'small' stations between Skipton and Carlisle. When it started it skipped the three stops north of Appleby, so it was a kind of semi-fast for a time.

There are only fast services (plural) on a Sunday, with the 09.23 (?) ex Nottingham running fast-ish to Carlisle.
Curiously, the return working is all shacks to Leeds, then on to Nottingham, to be followed by an 'express' an hour or so later that terminates at Leeds.
 

geoffk

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I know this is going off topic, but what other examples are there of crews operating the stock of a different TOC? Barton-on-Humber is another. Do TPE crews still work Northern trains between Hull and Scarborough?
 

Peter Bonner

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I know this is going off topic, but what other examples are there of crews operating the stock of a different TOC? Barton-on-Humber is another. Do TPE crews still work Northern trains between Hull and Scarborough?
Drivers and conductors used to work 2 shifts each per day on Hull to Scarboro line. One unit was outstationed overnight at Hull. Now itruns up from Hull at 0533 so I think its all Northern now. Change was in 2018 IIRC.
 

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