Northumberland Line to be re-opened to passengers

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone have an idea what stock might be used for this project? With Northern saying they are only opening a conductor depot at Ashington i'm assuming the units and drivers will come from Heaton, is there enough 156/8s there to allow for the planned hourly services each way?

Half hourly services most of the time isn’t it? But rolling stock and timetabling matters probably need their own discussions eventually in the other sub forums.

 

[zwk500]

Does anyone have an idea what stock might be used for this project? With Northern saying they are only opening a conductor depot at Ashington i'm assuming the units and drivers will come from Heaton, is there enough 156/8s there to allow for the planned hourly services each way?

Is it known if the service will be self-contained or will it interwork with Northern's other local service?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it known if the service will be self-contained or will it interwork with Northern's other local service?

Everything official so far had said they wouldn't interwork, but that always fitted in with the idea of a mini-TOC, but now it has to be assumed that’s finished. Most earlier discussions suggested it would be too unreliable to work through/across Newcastle.

 

[zwk500]

Everything official so far had said they wouldn't interwork, but that always fitted in with the idea of a mini-TOC, but now it has to be assumed that’s finished. Most earlier discussions suggested it would be too unreliable to work through/across Newcastle.

Makes sense, similar concerns have come up with other reopening projects.

 

[androdas]

Im not sure if the mini TOC idea was not just the council thinking out loud during the initial feasibility stage. Now the Morpeth local trains generally run through to Carlisle would it be feasible for the Ashington trains to reverse at Metrocentre or possibly Hexham, and free up a platform at Newcastle, especially now that TPE are making a lot more use of the north facing bay (P1) that was initially mooted as a terminus for the Ashington trains? Hexham would make it more of a proper 'Northumberland Line'

 

[Killingworth]

Speaking to Northern yesterday at their Stakeholder meeting in York the information linked above was as far as they'd commit at this stage.

However much is bound up with the final completion date and other timetabling, rostering and rolling stock deployments across the network They're confident a half hourly service will run. I suspect interworking is more likely to come later once it beds in.

 

[willgreen]

I believe that some of the local user groups have aspirations for Ashington-Metrocentre but as has been said this could be unreliable - particularly considering the single track sections on the Ashington line itself, the need to work around freight, and interactions with the ECML south of Benton Junction. Trying to path a service across Newcastle station would add to complexity so I don't imagine it'd be pursued unless it saved a unit elsewhere.

 

[swt_passenger]

Im not sure if the mini TOC idea was not just the council thinking out loud during the initial feasibility stage.

Undoubtedly. Seems a standard tactic with council driven small schemes - because obviously anyone can run a mini-TOC better than the people who’ve been doing it on a large scale for many years.

Now the Morpeth local trains generally run through to Carlisle would it be feasible for the Ashington trains to reverse at Metrocentre or possibly Hexham, and free up a platform at Newcastle, especially now that TPE are making a lot more use of the north facing bay (P1) that was initially mooted as a terminus for the Ashington trains? Hexham would make it more of a proper 'Northumberland Line'

I suspect this is going over old ground, it’s been discussed a couple of times previously in this thread. My view is we should leave this thread to construction news.

 

[xotGD]

So is there a need to reinstate the old Platform 6 at Newcastle as a new Platform 0 to provide an additional bay next to Platform 1?

 

[androdas]

There was talk a while back of joining the current platform 1/disused platform 6 to 9/10 and creating another island but I dont think any work at all is proposed at Newcastle for the Northumberland line so whatever happens will probably have to make do with what infrastructure central station has now.

 

[EveningStar]

So is there a need to reinstate the old Platform 6 at Newcastle as a new Platform 0 to provide an additional bay next to Platform 1?

Would probably be operationally desirable to have an additional east facing bay. However, will be more than installing new track, as there is electrification equipment to move, the platform will need refurbishment and changes required to passenger circulation onto the platform. Suspect somebody will decide it is cheaper to work within the existing infrastructure.

 

[Killingworth]

Would probably be operationally desirable to have an additional east facing bay. However, will be more than installing new track, as there is electrification equipment to move, the platform will need refurbishment and changes required to passenger circulation onto the platform. Suspect somebody will decide it is cheaper to work within the existing infrastructure.

Thinking back to the days when the old Blyth and Tyne line terminated at Manors, before the North Tynside loop was connected, there was plenty of terminating space there. After the loop was completed all North Tyneside electric trains terminated at the east end of Central, together with steam services from South Tyneside. No room for the Ashington and Blyth services that carried on as before, all but forgotten at Manors. No wonder passenger numbers dwindled away.

Electrics and steam came and went. Their DMU successors far from boosting the line effectively killed it - but arise the Metro with repurposing of those east facing bays at Central for car parking! Gone that wonderful diamond crossing. Enough of this nostalgia. I'll be suggesting reopening the old line west along the north bank between the river and Scotswood Road next! We have to work from a modern map and present day railway configurations.

 

[willgreen]

Would probably be operationally desirable to have an additional east facing bay. However, will be more than installing new track, as there is electrification equipment to move, the platform will need refurbishment and changes required to passenger circulation onto the platform. Suspect somebody will decide it is cheaper to work within the existing infrastructure.

Platform 1 gets very little use anyway IIRC (some of the Northern trains to Morpeth and an occasional TPE terminator) so it should be able to handle Ashington as well. Newcastle isn't particularly stretched for capacity as well so there is scope to move things round.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The project website has been updated with a couple of newsletters showing progress (and a promise to do monthly updates) of interest and relative to the discussion further up the thread the October one has some virtual tours taken by Morgan Sindall showing the partially demolished Ashington platform.

Newsletters: https://www.northumberlandline.uk/p...welcome-to-the-northumberland-line-newsletter
Direct link to Ashington photo (Click start to see demolished platform): https://storage.net-fs.com/hosting/6103018/1/

Edit: another thing I have seen for the first time in the October newsletter is Northern have recruited a Driver Team Manager, 20 Drivers and a Conductor Team Manager who will be based at a new Ashington conductor depot once the line is opened.

Excellent informative newsletters.

 

[markydh]

Im not sure if the mini TOC idea was not just the council thinking out loud during the initial feasibility stage. Now the Morpeth local trains generally run through to Carlisle would it be feasible for the Ashington trains to reverse at Metrocentre or possibly Hexham, and free up a platform at Newcastle, especially now that TPE are making a lot more use of the north facing bay (P1) that was initially mooted as a terminus for the Ashington trains? Hexham would make it more of a proper 'Northumberland Line'

Bare in mind that through running is to be abandoned when the ECML rewrite is eventually introduced. All three local northern routes will terminate at Newcastle.

 

[adrock1976]

Is it intended for the Blythe and Tyne to receive overhead wires?

If not, I strongly suggest that the trains should be sent to Gateshead Metrocentre so as to avoid additional diesel trains terminating in the trainshead at Newcastle.

If diesel trains were to be sent a short distance nearby, it would help to reduce the amount of diesel trains terminating at stations that are enclosed.

 

[swt_passenger]

7

Is it intended for the Blythe and Tyne to receive overhead wires?

Definitely not. It’s never been mentioned in any planning documentation. I suspect the only consideration is that the very few brand new road bridges and footbridges will be high enough for wires In the future.

 

[androdas]

Bare in mind that through running is to be abandoned when the ECML rewrite is eventually introduced. All three local northern routes will terminate at Newcastle.

I don't doubt this is the case but seems to be a retrograde step, especially for the Tyne Valley - Durham Coast route. Forcing people to change trains means a proportion won't bother using the train at all. Not everyone is wanting to travel to Newcastle Central.

 

[Killingworth]

I don't doubt this is the case but seems to be a retrograde step, especially for the Tyne Valley - Durham Coast route. Forcing people to change trains means a proportion won't bother using the train at all. Not everyone is wanting to travel to Newcastle Central.

Long distance trains pick up more delays than those on simpler there and back routes. Of all the major TOCs c2Cc does best on punctuality largely because it runs there and back services into Fenchurch Street and Liverpool Street.

Contrast that with another extreme, East Midlands Liverpool-Norwich. Lots of through passengers overlapping at multiple points along the route. Great to stay aboard one train for a longer journey. Not so great for those wanting to catch a connecting service.

This might be a subject for its own thread, but those wanting a punctual service from Newcastle to Hexham or Hartlepool might do better with a train starting from Newcastle. The benefits have to be weighed of through journeys for relatively few with punctual journeys for those starting or changing in Newcastle.

If lots do want to travel across the city a good case might be made to continue as it is, however adding another cross city service for the Northumberland Line may complicate timetabling too much.

 

[SeanG]

It is often the case that a northbound service has to skip some stops on the Durham coast if delayed coming from Whitby, in order to make some time to get through Newcastle to go on to Hexham.

As a Durham Coast line user, I would rather change at Newcastle all the time if it meant better punctuality throughout.

In reality, the through services have a large turnover at Newcastle and it appears to me that it is only a minority who travel 'across' between the two lines.

 

[Mollman]

It is often the case that a northbound service has to skip some stops on the Durham coast if delayed coming from Whitby, in order to make some time to get through Newcastle to go on to Hexham.

As a Durham Coast line user, I would rather change at Newcastle all the time if it meant better punctuality throughout.

In reality, the through services have a large turnover at Newcastle and it appears to me that it is only a minority who travel 'across' between the two lines.

I guess that is the point of consulting on the timetable change to have an idea of the impact

 

[androdas]

Picture taken this morning of progress on Ashington, precast platform edges being installed. Apologies for the quality but it was on my phone stuck through the fence, seems that the extent of the platform demolition was just enough to fit the new bay platform in rather than wholescale removal of the old down platform.

 

[swt_passenger]

Picture taken this morning of progress on Ashington, precast platform edges being installed. Apologies for the quality but it was on my phone stuck through the fence, seems that the extent of the platform demolition was just enough to fit the new bay platform in rather than wholescale removal of the old down platform.


View attachment 123725

Thanks for that, it certainly answers the recent questions about the demolition extent. I assume you’re standing under the canopy just at the bottom end of the existing access ramp?

I expect that first larger concrete precast unit defines the furthest northern extent of the platform, the slightly lower concrete units will be sized to carry the platform edge slabs.

 

[androdas]

Thanks for that, it certainly answers the recent questions about the demolition extent. I assume you’re standing under the canopy just at the bottom end of the existing access ramp?

I expect that first larger concrete precast unit defines the furthest northern extent of the platform, the slightly lower concrete units will be sized to carry the platform edge slabs.

Yes just at the bottom of the ramp from Wansbeck Square, to the left will be the access to the lift which will run along the old platform next to the ramp. Ill try fo a better picture next time im up that end of town.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes just at the bottom of the ramp from Wansbeck Square, to the left will be the access to the lift which will run along the old platform next to the ramp. Ill try fo a better picture next time im up that end of town.

I hope the works will include a refresh of the ramp and its canopy, I think it was in a fairly poor condition last time I was in Ashington, but that was a few years ago now.

It will be unusual to have a public lift that is fairly remote from the station itself, I wonder who will be responsible for its day to day security etc, eg the TOC, NR or the local authority?

 

[androdas]

No photo this morning on my walk by the Ashington station site as it was too dark but all the platform edges are in and currently being backfilled with stone and rolled. What looks like drainage / utility work being done as well in what will be the Car Park.

I hope the works will include a refresh of the ramp and its canopy, I think it was in a fairly poor condition last time I was in Ashington, but that was a few years ago now.

Hopefully this will mean a revamp of the whole Wansbeck Square area it is looking very tired especially since the library was moved to the leisure centre.

 

[androdas]

Latest issue of the newsletter has been published on the project website. Shows some pictures of the new Ashington platform and updated virtual tours, quite a well put together product lets hope they keep it up throughout the project.

Northumberland Line Newsletter - November 2022

Northumberland Line Newsletter November 2022

www.northumberlandline.uk

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Latest issue of the newsletter has been published on the project website. Shows some pictures of the new Ashington platform and updated virtual tours, quite a well put together product lets hope they keep it up throughout the project.

Northumberland Line Newsletter - November 2022

Northumberland Line Newsletter November 2022

www.northumberlandline.uk

That is great update and i like the surround pictures from each of the stations that you can link to. Should get more of this from across the network promoting what is going and showing how its being achieved.

 

[androdas]

That is great update and i like the surround pictures from each of the stations that you can link to. Should get more of this from across the network promoting what is going and showing how its being achieved.

Im subscribed for updates and I got it sent to me from a northumberland.gov.uk email address so it looks like it might be put together by the council project team. Makes sense as this is a council led scheme.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Does anyone have an idea what stock might be used for this project? With Northern saying they are only opening a conductor depot at Ashington i'm assuming the units and drivers will come from Heaton, is there enough 156/8s there to allow for the planned hourly services each way?

Any chance someone could link me to a page with more info on the Ashington depot?