Notice of Intended Prosecution

[adama00999]

Hi all, today i received a letter about a ticket which i had purchased as a child instead of an adult on the 28th November 2024. I have attached the letter. I am writing as I need help as to what to do next. I have already emailed the email on the letter but will there be a chance that I can just pay a fine outside of court? Thanks

 

[John R]

Could you please give us some more details, as per the guidance for posting in this section, repeated below:-

Please read before posting in Disputes & Prosecutions

Guidance for those asking for advice: Please bear in mind the following, when asking for advice in this section: We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example: The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey The stations* where you changed...

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We need to know all relevant facts in order to assist you, including, for example:

• The stations* where you actually started & finished your journey
• The stations* where you changed trains (if applicable);
• If you presented a ticket(s), the information* stated under "Ticket type", "From", "To", "Route", and any other relevant details;
• Details of any Railcard(s) held;
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• What happened in any encounter with railway staff;
• Upload copies of any paperwork (with personal details redacted) with your post.

• We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory
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* When referring to any stations, please write station names out in full the first time you refer to them; subsequently you may refer to correct station codes (as available here).

In order to help you, forum members may ask some probing questions, to establish exactly what happened. This will enable members to offer the best advice for your individual circumstances and ensure the train company has followed the correct procedure.

It is important that you are open and honest with us, otherwise the advice of our members may not be appropriate for your case.

In particular I see the letter says the journey started at Tyseley, which is a common station used by those committing "short fare fraud". It would also help if you let us know whether the ticket was bought online and if you have done this before using online tickets, as the second paragraph implies that you have done so.

 

[adama00999]

From tyseley to birmingham moor street. i actually travelled from tyseley on this date.

ticket was purchased prior to journey

he asked for my ID and said i’d get a letter within 3 months and id most likely get a small fine

 

[John R]

You won't get a "fine" (which is what you get if you are prosecuted and convicted), but you are likely to be offered an "out of court settlement" instead of prosecution. This will involve payment of the full fare again, usually for any journeys they identify you have incorrectly bought a child ticket, and an admin fee, which is typically £150.

When you get a letter, come back here and we can walk you through the process, which will involve you writing a very apologetic reply and promising not to do it again. It's essential that you engage with them in a timely manner, to make sure you avoid prosecution.

 

[adama00999]

You won't get a "fine" (which is what you get if you are prosecuted and convicted), but you are likely to be offered an "out of court settlement" instead of prosecution. This will involve payment of the full fare again, usually for any journeys they identify you have incorrectly bought a child ticket, and an admin fee, which is typically £150.

When you get a letter, come back here and we can walk you through the process, which will involve you writing a very apologetic reply and promising not to do it again. It's essential that you engage with them in a timely manner, to make sure you avoid prosecution.

here is the letter:

 

[WesternLancer]

here is the letter:

You say you already sent them an e-mail - if so please post the content of what you have said to them in that e-mail already.

ideally it's better if you do not reply until you have had some advice form here about what you should say in any reply - so it would be good to see if your reply will help achieve your objective of not being taken to court, and if not what experts here think you should do next.

 

[adama00999]

You say you already sent them an e-mail - if so please post the content of what you have said to them in that e-mail already.

ideally it's better if you do not reply until you have had some advice form here about what you should say in any reply - so it would be good to see if your reply will help achieve your objective of not being taken to court, and if not what experts here think you should do next.

Here is the email i wrote to them:

 

[John R]

It's not a bad letter by any means, but did you put the reference on it somewhere to enable them to marry it up to your case?

 

[adama00999]

Yes all my information was prior to the start of the letter. Do you have any idea if they will end up taking this to an out of court settlement as i’ve heard chiltern tend to do this especially with first time offenders.

 

[WesternLancer]

Here is the email i wrote to them:

Thanks - hopefully it will do the trick - just a minor point you say you intend to buy a railcard in your reply - I would follow through now and actually buy one unless you are not planning any rail travel at all in the near future

 

[adama00999]

Yeah i’ll definitely make sure to. So do you think there is a high chance of me just being let off with an out of court fee? based off the letter and what i had replied to them with

 

[John R]

As I said, it’s a perfectly good letter and comparable to many we see where a settlement is given. I’d be surprised if you aren’t offered one. Do you have the means to pay it quickly, as you will need to do so?

 

[adama00999]

As I said, it’s a perfectly good letter and comparable to many we see where a settlement is given. I’d be surprised if you aren’t offered one. Do you have the means to pay it quickly, as you will need to do so?

Yeah i’d be able to pay straight away, any idea on how much it would be?

 

[WesternLancer]

Yeah i’ll definitely make sure to. So do you think there is a high chance of me just being let off with an out of court fee? based off the letter and what i had replied to them with

A good chance yes, just head back here when they reply if you need more help / advice.

Yeah i’d be able to pay straight away, any idea on how much it would be?

You should calculate the amount of fares you evaded and add c£150 for the costs of their investigation of you / 'administration' charge. They are very unlikely to accept the child fare tickets as part payment of what you should have paid. They would regard them as tickets that have no validity at all if you were aged over 16 years old

 

[John R]

Yeah i’d be able to pay straight away, any idea on how much it would be?

That depends on how many cases they identify, and what those journeys were. You’ll know how long you’ve been doing it for, and if not, it would be a good idea to trawl through your account to find out.

 

[adama00999]

Will do. Also, is the actual offence as serious as they said it is in the letter as that looked as if i was certainly going to court or are they known to be lenient with these types of incidents. Also i just purchased a 16-25 railcard.

 

[Knoodlepot]

You need to calculate a standard single per journey. So if you bought a return incorrectly they will charge 2x Standard singles for that return with normally no deductions.

 

[WesternLancer]

Will do. Also, is the actual offence as serious as they said it is in the letter as that looked as if i was certainly going to court

Its a criminal offence, so yes you should take it seriously. But many such cases are settled out of court (which means that you do not get prosecuted if they agree to do so)

or are they known to be lenient with these types of incidents.

many such cases are settled out of court

Also i just purchased a 16-25 railcard.

I think that is good to have done so. Check the key terms and conditions of the Railcard so you know you can use it properly as it's important you don't make other ticketing mistakes because you are on their radar now.

 

[Hadders]

Chiltern will almost certainly offer you an oyou to pay the cost of the fare avoided and want you to pay the full Anytime fare with no credit given for the invalid ticket you did buy. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically around £150. If your online ticket purchasing history shows previous purchases of child tickets then they will probably want to factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement cost.

 

[adama00999]

Chiltern will almost certainly offer you an oyou to pay the cost of the fare avoided and want you to pay the full Anytime fare with no credit given for the invalid ticket you did buy. In addition they will charge an admin fee, typically around £150. If your online ticket purchasing history shows previous purchases of child tickets then they will probably want to factor the cost of these journeys into the settlement cost.

Thank you. You guys have been very helpful.

 

[MotCO]

Also i just purchased a 16-25 railcard.

Also, as @WesternLancer says, make sure you always buy the correct ticket from now on. Common 'errors' are buying a 16-17 ticket rather than a 16-25 ticket (it's easy to make this mistake), and in the morning peak there is a minimum fare of £12 https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/ . Make a note of the renewal date on your phone etc - no-one will remind you -, and buy a new one in time.

 

[adama00999]

Also, when should I expect to hear back from them. I emailed them 2 days ago.

 

[WesternLancer]

Also, when should I expect to hear back from them. I emailed them 2 days ago.

could take a few weeks

 

[adama00999]

could take a few weeks

It’s been nearly 5 weeks now and they still haven’t responded, any idea on how much longer? And they will respond via email right and not a letter?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

It’s been nearly 5 weeks now and they still haven’t responded, any idea on how much longer? And they will respond via email right and not a letter?

The railway have up to six months from the incident to start the process of taking you to court - and it can then take a week or so for the court to get in touch with you. So you can't be certain that the railway won't be in touch with you until maybe the end of June this year (incident on 28 November 2024 so 6 months is 28 May 2025: say the end of June for safety).

Although it's not easy, you have no choice but to wait.

 

[WesternLancer]

The

It’s been nearly 5 weeks now and they still haven’t responded, any idea on how much longer? And they will respond via email right and not a letter?

The only other option than waiting is to send them a polite e-mail including your reference number and asking if they can tell you when you might expect to hear from them. But in some ways it's not in your interests to remind them / hurry them up.